doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Shooting Damascus

This was my waterfowl gun for several years.



Once repairs are made, this will be my waterfowl gun. I should point out that only one set of barrels on this gun are damascus.

I have a Meriden hammerless 12 gauge that is circa 1910 as best I can figure. Twist barrels that look like yours. Bores are mirror. I've shot it about 400 rounds with black powder and low pressure smokeless without a hitch. I was never a shotshell reloader and always had a helpful friend who did low pressure loading for me; however I just recently bought a MEC and am setting it up. Currently I have the twist Meriden and two Syracuse Lefevers with damascus barrels. All of them get out on the courses and in the field. It's a real blast to use a ~100 year old gun, low pressure loads, and see it strut it's stuff. Those old timers can still make eyebrows raise! Silvers

Northern Illinois Shotgunner,

What exactly did your gunsmith find that doomed the gun?

Best,
Mark

This is great! Keep posting pics of these beautiful damascus guns, I can't get enough.. I love the idea of a hammer gun for ducks, as opposed to upland where you are walking around. You see the ducks coming, plenty of time to cock the hammer while sitting in a blind.

I would liike to eventually find a 28-30" 12b damascus gun with great barrels that could digest lots of rounds at the range and some in the duck blind. Something stout that could take some abuse too. A Parker GH or VH, or Lefever G sounds about right.

I have posted on this before, but has been awhile so will run it again. Some yrs back i purchased a "Parts Gun" at appropriate price, a Lefever H with twist bbls. Stock was cracked & wrpped with electrical tape, forend had apparently been damaged & tip dubbed off losing the metal tip. Gun would not cock, but all parts seemed to be present. Discovered the trigger plate screw was a "replacement" & too long not allowing the cocking hook to bottom out in the frame. Shortening this a thread or so & "Re-Adjustment" of the ball screw put it back in working order. However 14" down the left bbl was a "Crack". Appearance was it had been struck on something with a sharp corner, denting it in & then fired in that condition. What seems to have happened was this dent was deep enough to create an obstruction just enough to blow the Dent partially out & cracking the wall in the process. Part of it was still dented in & part was sticking out. Crack was about ¼" long circumferential around side of bbl. I could shine a light down the bore & look at opposite bore wall through the crack. Out of curriosity I put a dent plug under it & raised the part dented in & hammered the flap down. When finished it was very hard to see. I then proceded to put in in the ol "Firestone" with a string to the trigger & from behind a large tre fired first several factory 3¼de-1 1/8oz "Field" loads through it. Next I fired several factory "Express" 3 3/4de-1¼oz loads. I then fired a few 1 3/8oz low-velocity handloads I had loaded with Unique powder. Throughout all of this, the flap did not raise, the crack did not widen, no "Smudges" appeared as if were leaking gas etc, etc. Today it still sits in my cabinet, just in case I do "Ever" actually need a part for a Lefever. I have "Never" fired it from my shoulder. I do however think that the danger from "Flaws" in welded bbls , slag etc, have been highly "Over-Exagerated". I personally expect that "Seams" in steel bbls are more apt to burst as are bls, either welded or steel, which have been honed too thin, too near the chambers. note also this "14"" from breech is where many try to tell us "Smokeless Powder" exerts it's maximum pressure, totally an Old Wives Tale.

I am also really enjoying seeing that others shoot their damascus and even more so when they post photos of their "shooters"! I do hope fellow forum members keep this "virtual gun show" of beloved guns going (too often all we see on the internet and at gun shows are the guns that are for sale).

Interesting how so many of those who shoot these old guns refer to them with such affection. I am new to the hammer gun, and while at first I wasn't to wild about the idea, I have grown to appreciate some of the qualities (perhaps why it did not die out quickly upon the introduction of the hammerless designs). Here are some things I found I liked the very first time I used it-
1. No need for snap caps.
2. The action naturally falls open when the lever is operated for easy reloading.
3. When shooting trap I only need to cock the barrel I am using.
4. The gun is very safe when loaded and not cocked and one can tell at a glance (or touch) if it is ready to fire.

Some things I am not so wild about-
1. The hammers are a bit heavy and much like shooting a single action revolver, there is that extra step to take...cock the hammers.
2. Because there is no external safety (other than the hammers in the uncocked mode) the shotgun can't be "cocked and locked" for hunting (as noted by the quote above).

Another member of the forum told me that a popular technique for hunting with the hammer gun is to load, leave the action open and cock the hammers. Then one simply closes the action when ready to fire. No doubt this was a common practice in the golden days.

My Meriden's action has a feature that appears to have the purpose of preventing an accidental discharge. This feature prohibits the hammer from fully dropping unless the trigger is pulled and kept back (being new the hammer gun, I am not sure if this feature is something they all had). This is along the lines of the intention behind the Glock trigger safety. I am not sure how this works or how reliable it would be to prevent the hammer falling if the shotgun was dropped, however---if it is simply a sear, I suppose the sear could shear. Nonetheless, this leads me to believe that many old timers were comfortable hunting with the guns loaded and cocked and simply followed the rule of keeping the finger out of the trigger guard until it was time to shoot the weapon.

Please keep the photos and stories of damascus shooting going! Today I plan on taking my shotgun out and shooting some patterns on paper and time and other projects permitting, I may even shoot some clays.

Doug

SAC





LAC





jack

Doug, Belgium workmen constructed more damascus and twist barrels than any other country. And their work generally is without peer. The English also made excellent barrels though truth be told I suspect the majority of English guns carry Belgium barrels. Most tubes brought into America were from Belgium and were turned, struck, and joined here. Then they were proofed by the manufacturer. And it is my understanding that American makers used very stiff proof loads. As I see it there is a great difference between American and English proof. In England when the government proof house approved a gun it then relieved the maker of any liability should the gun later fail. However, in America the liability continued with the maker and should a barrel fail, even years later, the maker was potentially liable. That is probably one of the reasons American barrels tend to have a lot more metal in them than their English counterparts. Another way to look at proofing: do you worry today purchasing a new American gun just because it hasn't gone through a government proof? Of course not. The same was true then. Now, if an old damascus or twist gun has had its bores honed or pitted significantly, reducing wall thickness then I would think a gunsmith well versed in judging and proofing barrels should be consulted. I've just always stayed away from American guns without original bores. There are plenty of good ones around.

I consider good quality and condition twist barrels to be of nearly the same strength as damascus. Perhaps some strength is gained in the twisting process of damascus but I think the primary reason for it was fashion and beauty.

You mentioned the flats on the barrels also being of twist construction. They are integral with the tubes and were never a separate piece. Then the lug was dovetailed into the flats and brazed in place. A very strong and common method of construction.

I love to shoot my old damascus guns. However, remember this: they are old and metalurgy has changed a lot over the last century or more. Respect the gun and only shoot loads with pressures and characteristics the same as it was originally made for. There are a lot of good low pressure loads (under 7,000 psi) for anything from 7/8 oz to 1 1/8oz available by reloading. IMR is my favorite site for data since I primarily use IMR 7625 and PB in Federal hulls.

Incidently, Meriden made a very fine product.

Good shooting!

A few pics of my Meriden 12 gauge hammerless. My rabbit hunting buddy has some others of the gun with some bunnies and I'll try to get them from him. Silvers

Here's one of mine. #1 a Crawford 16ga 32" barrels. [url="http://www.hunt101.com/?p=408105&c=500&z=1"][/url]

No photos right now of the others,