doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Dan's 1922

Something for all of you to look at and let us know what you think.

Dan will be along to answer your questions. This rifle was at auction last month in California, the usual folks that would buy a 1922 did not care for this one.

The threads on the muzzle, only time I have seen this before was on a 1899 Savage and the threads were for a Maxim silencer. What were they for on this rifle?

The grips area, Dan's rifle is quite thicker then the other two. I personally like the other two, to those who handled this gun what did it feel like in your hands? Comfortable, thick, or what?

The grip is thicker due the fact it is a standard govt issue stock which was just checkered. I'm assuming the barrel threads were for a silencer and the cover didn't show in the auction photo. The gun didn't have the Lyman 17A but I added it so I could shoot it.
The DST looks to be from a Mauser. The rifle is a M1922 still with the double firing pin and is #295.
Has anyone seen the little roller that pushes up on the striker to maintain an even engagement before?
Any guesses on who did the work?

Dan

Kind of ironic but I just looked at a Sporter with a similar threaded muzzle.

I have a Remington 34 with a threaded muzzle. I wouldn't let this one get out of my sight if it were mine.

I'll take a WAG...Looking at the picture of the grip and its similarity to the rifle on the left, knowing that Wundhamer was not around when SA made the 1922....Ross King?

Are there any British Proof marks? The roller "may" be the key. DS triggers are not easy to squeeze into a 1903/1922. I like this rifle and this is and will be interesting.

The hook buttplate looks exactly like one pictured on 1924 International Match Rifle, sn 1930 on page 121 of the Springfield 1903 Rifles by Brophy. While it is described as a 1924 IM, the rifle it was made from is a Model of 1922. The IM rifle had a DST but it is not the same as the one pictured on the rifle in question. I wonder what shooting discipline it was made up for as the IM rifles had palm rests in addition to the DST and hook puttplate. The subject rifle is very beautiful.

The windage knob is not original. The one on the sight now is probably better for adjusting windage. I think the owner must have been a serious rifle competitor.

Herschel,
Was the 1924 IM hook butt made of aluminum? There is a threaded hole in the front of the TG for a palm rest but not like the Springfield type palm rest. This hole was a modification after they filled the space between the floor plate and the front screw. I think I sent Michael a photo of the modification. By the way, the TG is from an '03 and not from the M1922.

If the guard in the photo of the set triggers is the one on your 1922 it is a Mauser guard, not a Springfield 03

Only the rear part is Mauser, from the rear vertical part back. The front is Springfield and it was welded together at the rear part of the box.

Gary,

There are no British proofs anywhere.
Dan

Most of the late group of Milsurp Swedish Mausers imported have had threaded muzzles. It was to attach a training device that allowed the use of wooden bullets for training. The device would shred the bullets upon exiting the muzzle,

Here's a photo of the device...



A quick explanation..

http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=6&f=14&t=386434

Dan, The hook buttplates I have seen were aluminum. The buttplate in the photo I mentioned appears to be aluminum. In the text I have found mention that the buttplate on Model of 1922 #1930 is the second type. I believe the first type was adjustable.

I have forwarded a link to this thread to Lynn Meredith. He is the man that I believe knows most about the International Match Rifles. I don't know if he will choose to join this discussion.

The modified triggerguard/floorplate assembly leads me to think this rifle was made up for international match competition. I believe the Springfield Armory made 1924 IM rifles had heavy barrels.

Tom Davis was correct in his guess, the gun was done by Ross King. Anyway that is what Michael and I have concluded after the only other roller for the striker like this is on a Ross King '03. Plus the PG checkering and the bolt knob checkering.
Dan LH

Congrats Dan! You really come up with some treasures.

Dan,

Regarding your rifle, you say that it was determined to have been done by Ross King due to the fact that Michael had seen another King rifle with the roller installed.

Do you know if that other rifle was a match rifle, or a sporting rifle?

The bolt knob checkering on your rifle appears to be a band of checkering around the knob. From reading Michael's information on Ross King, he said that King's bolt knobs were checkered like Wundhammer's, a circular pattern on the underside of the knob, but with courser checkering.

Do we now know of another checkering pattern on King's bolt knobs?

A very interesting rifle, I have one with similar characteristics.

Thanks and best regards,

What Cheer

What Cheer,
I missed your response the other night. The other Ross King rifle with the roller is a 30-06 that was in Michaels possession and was more of a sporting rifle than a target rifle. I don't believe that it had DST but just the roller on the issue trigger. I do think that the 06 had the same bolt checkering as this 22 but I will have to go back and try to find that info.
Is your similar rifle a 22 or 06?
Dan

WC,
I just found my photos from Michael about the King rifle and his rifle does have the same bolt checkering as my 22. He said that King changed from the Wundhammer style to this. I also confirmed that the 06 did not have DST and was a sporting rifle.
Dan

Dan,

Thanks for your reply to my questions.

My rifle is a 30/06 heavy barrel international match type, with double set triggers.It does have the roller installed. The bolt knob checkering is a circular pattern on the underside, Wundhammer style.

My rifle has a square hole in the forward part of the guard bow, which I have always believed to be the second anchor point for the palm rest attachment, along with the threaded hole in the forward trigger guard extension. My rifle has the threaded hole also.

Does your rifle have the Square hole in the guard bow?

The checkering on the pistol grip on my rifle is very similar to yours, follows the curve of the grip, Wundhammer, King style.

The checkering on the forend is much like your rifle, as best as I can tell from the photographs. One thing, the checkering does not exactly wrap around, but is separated by a thin border line on the under side of the forend.

Does your rifle have this thin separation border?

Thanks, and best regards,

Rick

Rick,
Yes, the 22 has a square hole in the front of the TG. And the forend checkering does have a thin solid line down the center to separate the two sides. Sounds like your rifle is a mate to the 22.
Are the DST from a Mauser like my 22?

How about some photos of your rifle.
Dan

Dan,

The comparison of the two rifles is very interesting.

I have had my rifle for many years and have tentatively identified the set triggers as having been made by Hammerli. Either four or five lever type. It was a major undertaking to install these triggers in a M1903, but was done very skillfully, and they work very well.

The Lyman 48 receiver sight on your rifle appears to have 1/4 minute adjustments. I do not know for sure when the 48 became available with adjustments this fine, but I believe it was later than the time period of our rifles construction. My rifle has the same sight as yours, and I have always believed it was upgraded at some point. As Herschel posted above the rifle(s) were owned by a serious competitor.

The butt plate for my rifle is same type as yours, however is made of brass and painted black. It mounts with two screws in the same holes as the M1922 butt plate, which I keep on mine as it makes it easier to shoot from the bench.

I may have missed it but is your butt plate aluminum, or nickel plated brass?

Thanks, and best regards,

Rick

Rick,
Yes, the 48 has 1/4 min clicks but only the knobs were changed and I assume that was done by a recent owner for shooting. You only have to change the knobs to do this and the staff is from the orig period. The butt plate is brass.
Is your stock a remodeled Springfield or new made?
You say yours has a heavy barrel, are there any marks on the barrel that might indicate who made the barrel?
Dan

Dan,

Understand about knobs on a Lyman 48, mine came to me with the 1/4 minute clicks, and has had these knobs for at least 30 years.

The stock on my rifle is a modified M1922 (not an NRA Sporter) two stock reinforcing screws, and a recess for the cut-off have been added.

The pistol grip and cap treatment on my rifle is like yours,the grip is left full and tapers down on the bottom to the size of the cap.

My grip cap is horn, oval shaped, tapering on the sides to a flat oval on the top. Center mounting screw.

How does this compare with the cap on your rifle? I am unable to determine this from the photographs.

My receiver is a Springfield Armory M1903, 1921 production.

The barrel is by H.M.Pope.

Thanks, and best regards,

Rick

Dan,

I forgot one thing, my rifle has the J.C. Garand high speed firing mechanism.

Best regards,

Rick

Rick,
My PG cap is horn but smooth like my Wundhammer. I am sending Fred some photos for him to post.
One of PG cap, one of square hole in front of TG and one of the bottom of the forend checkering that you talked about earlier.
Dan

Here are the pictures

Dan,

First I would like to thank PhysDoc for posting the photographs.

The checkering pattern on the forend appears to be exactly as mine with the narrow border separating the two panels.

The square hole appears to be the same size as the one on my rifle, and in the same location on the guard bow.

The grip cap is different, mine is shaped very much like the steel caps that were used on Griffin & Howe rifles, but as I stated earlier, is made of horn.

The strong similarities of the two rifles does suggest they were constructed, or at least stocked by, the same person.

Thanks, and best regards,

Rick

Rick,
The stock similarities plus the roller behind the sear would say that the whole rifle was done by the same person.
How about some photos of your rifle for the forum??
Dan

Dan,

I do not have the equipment to post photographs on the forum. I do appreciate the time you have taken to compare the two rifles, they are both interesting.

Thanks, and best regards,

Rick

Rick,

Do you have any idea what the palm rest base would look like to fit the square hole and the threaded hole in the TG?

Dan

I am reviving this thread in hopes that someone out there may know who Rick who went by the name of What Cheer is. I would very much like to get some info on his Pope barreled rifle that he talks about. After Michael's passing, I now have the King made Pope barreled rifle talked about and it was owned by W D Murphy of Pasadena. I have wondered if maybe he also once owned the above 22. What brought this on now is that I just bought an '03 T rifle that was sold by the Govt to W D Murphy and it has a lot of the same characteristics as the 22. I won't have the new rifle for a week or two but will then post some more photos.
Dan

Dan,

Interesting Model of 1922 you have. I am an avid 1922 collector and have several, including a Model of 1924 International Match that is 1 of 12 built for the US Rifle Team in 1924. It is also documented as 1 of the 8 that went to Paris for the 1924 Olympics. Four of these eight were used in the 50M off-hand event, but unfortunately, no documentation has surfaced identifying which four were shot in competition.

My interest in these rifles has lead me to doing a lot of internet data minding. One thing I have researched and collected is the where-about of the original 2020 Model of 1922's. Thus far I have collected info on about 130 rifles, including your rifle, SN 295. I found it on an icollector page when it was listed for auctioned by Little John's Auctions in November 2013. What catch my attention was the aluminum hooked butt-plate and double-set triggers, both features found on the 1924 IM rife.



My initial thought was that it might have been a rare Outdoor Match rifle, but I do not believe that now. From your added photos it definitely appears to have been a Model 1922 customized for competition. I also wonder if the threaded barrel was for an early bloop-tube to extend the sight radius. I can see no logic to use a silencer on this type rifle, unless it spent time in England. Rifles used at indoor ranges in England were required to use silencers. I recently had a nice Mossberg Model 42M(b) that was a WW2 lend/lease rifle. It was eventually threaded by Parker Hale for that very reason.

You mentioned that you installed a Lyman 17 front sight. Did you notice the rear stud is installed slightly rearward of its original position. I can see that it now obscures part of the barrel markings. If the barrel was threaded to add an extension, the stud would have been removed to not block the extended front sight.

Thanks for sharing.

Art

Very well done welding job indeed. RWTF