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Though Ted believes "classic" is used too loosely, the quoted definitions that apply here show the term pertains to how a group of interested people perceives objects rather than to particulars of objects themselves. It's clear those definitions fit many American-made guns, but it's less clear to me that "classic" applies to similar English guns -- though their build quality may be equal or better -- because I've rarely heard them described as "classic".

Small Bore and others, is there a significant constituency that uses considers that grade of Brit gun "classic"?

Jay

Last edited by Gunflint Charlie; 01/16/14 12:30 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Gunflint Charlie
Though Ted believes the term is used too loosely, the quoted definitions of "classic" that apply here show the term pertains to how a group of interested people perceives objects rather than to particulars of objects themselves. It's clear those definitions fit many American-made guns, but it's less clear to me that "classic" applies to similar English guns -- though their build quality may be equal or better -- because I've rarely heard them described as "classic".

Small Bore, is there a significant constituency that uses the term for that grade of Brit gun?

Jay


Chas,
Are we seeking enlightenment on guns, or words at this point-I ask because the English and Us are common folk separated by language!

Best,
Ted

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Edited my post above before seeing Ted's last.

Ted, hasn't this thread from the first post been about how we use the word? Since the thread meandered into Brit guns, I'm wondering about how that bit of the language that divides us works for them and their guns. smile

Jay (Chas?)

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Originally Posted By: AmarilloMike
Buzz that is a nice gun.

As are my Parker VHs. Any rational person would recognize them as well built, nice, serviceable guns also. But some get picked off even by the hype written a hundred and twenty years ago by the nineteenth century English marketing guys.


Didn't you report to us that you were "taken" when you bought that Parker VH 12 with all the drop?
As far as hype, I can report that I've had gunfittings on two different continents, by guys who spoke two different languages, and neither of them suggested that 3" of DAH with a 13" LOP was going to be effective for me.

Pretty sure neither guy read any English marketing from the turn of the last century, and I know for sure one guy wouldn't have put any stock in it, if he did.

Best,
Ted

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Originally Posted By: Gunflint Charlie
Edited my post above before seeing Ted's last.

Ted, hasn't this thread from the first post been about how we use the word? Since the thread meandered into Brit guns, I'm wondering about how that bit of the language that divides us works for them and their guns. smile

Jay (Chas?)


I like to honor the dog you had engraved into the model 21, Jay. Been calling you Chas in honor of him for a long time.

If it bugs you, I'll stop.

I wouldn't expect an English definition of a word to mirror the use or nuance of said word, here.

Best,
Ted

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Originally Posted By: AmarilloMike
Buzz that is a nice gun.

As are my Parker VHs. Any rational person would recognize them as well built, nice, serviceable guns also. But some get picked off even by the hype written a hundred and twenty years ago by the nineteenth century English marketing guys.
I like Parker shotguns too, Mike! This Hellis gun has 2 1/2" chambers, ejectors, 28" barrels and weighs about 6 1/2 lbs. A bit heavy for a Grouse gun, at least for me. What do your Parker VH 12 bores weigh?


Socialism is almost the worst.
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Ted, sending you a PM.

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Parker Executive: "Damn, sales are slow, what's up with that?"

Marketing guy: "Everybody that can afford our guns has one. And you build them so well they last forever so there is no replacement market."

Parker Executive: "Well, that is why we sold so many."

Marketing guy: "I had a thought last night while I was dealing Three Card Monte. What if we started telling everybody that those Damascus barrels were dangerous with the modern slightly higher pressure shells?"

Parker Excutive: "That would be dishonest! I couldn't do that!"

Marketing guy: "No problem Boss! That is my job!"

-----------------

So someone spends half a day and $300 with a gunfitter.

Gunfitter: "14 x 1-1/2 x 2-1/2."

Client: "What! That is what I have been shooting since I was 12 - same dimensions as the Remington 1100 I started out with. You don't know what you are doing. My buddy got a gunfitting and he was prescribed 15-3/32 x 1-7/32 x 1-51/64 x 9/32 castoff-toe x 35/64 castoff-heel x 1-125/128 pitch. And his fitter had an English accent so of course he knew what he was doing!"

Gunfitter thinks: "Note to self; In the future do not prescribe dimensions that are standard, out of the box. Must be exotic. Also work on developing an English accent"

----------------------------------------

My Parker VHs with original factory buttplates (several) all have at least 14"LOP except for one.

Anyone that believes 14 x 1-3/4 x 2-3/4 can't be shot well never took the time to shoot a flat of shells through a quality gun stocked to those dimensions.

The latest marketing hype is manifest in the new trend for 16" LOP on bird guns. You will see it creeping in slowly. The next thing you know Ted will be extolling the advantages of the 2" extension he had fitted to his custom stocked Darne.



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The term 'classic' is totally subjective.

Some people consider the Morris Marina a 'classic car' because it is old and there is an owners club. I had one in 1979 and thought it a total POS and still do.

Who is to say who is right?

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Originally Posted By: Small Bore
The term 'classic' is totally subjective.

Some people consider the Morris Marina a 'classic car' because it is old and there is an owners club. I had one in 1979 and thought it a total POS and still do.

Who is to say who is right?


Well yes, subjective is assumed. I'm not asking the consequently meaningless question of who's right, but whether there's a notable number of people who consider a English gun of the Hellis "Reliable" grade to be "classic". Or maybe you're suggesting that some do, but your opinion of them is more like your opinion of a Morris Marina?

Jay

Last edited by Gunflint Charlie; 01/16/14 05:26 PM.
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