doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com "Classic" and "American gun" oxymorons?

'Let the condescension and patronizing superiority begin'. Well Drew, I can understand your sentiment but it does not appear that has happened, at least not yet. Personally I am fond of AH Fox, Parker, Win 21's and Elsie's. But, I have to tell you I am more fond of English guns. And it seems one can pick up a nice English boxlock for less than one can most of the American 'classics' ESP the graded ones. Also, most of the English guns are 'graded' with superior engraving. In terms of sidelocks, there is no comparison in quality of LC locks to most English guns, specifically those with intercepting safety sears. Having said all that, I am very fond of my Win 21's which IMO are very fine guns and constitute the epitome of the American 'classic' at least to me. It's hard for me to argue with Ted on all of this.

Condition, configuration, or the name of the company has nothing to do with it. Davenports were actually quite decent guns.

English and European standards for usefulness do not apply here, when it's "American Classic" being considered. Seems you would understand that, Ted.
JR

Classic, adj.: 1)Of the highest rank or class. 2)Serving as an outstanding representative of its kind, model. 3)Having lasting significance or recognized worth.

The Davenport in the For Sale section would not fit here, but a Parker A-grade sure would. Is my Jeffrey waterfowler considered a classic British boxlock? Maybe, maybe not.

Oh, I think it has .

John,
The post was NOT about "American Classics", it was a topic which questioned if the term "Classic" and "American Gun" should be used in the same sentence. You would have to make it back to the original post to see that.

One thing I perceive very clearly is just how useless the typical American gun that was built to the dimensions I described (and, we have all seen, thousands of times) really is when it is compared to what was coming out of Europe in the same time frame. Not all the LC Smiths and Parkers that have been restocked were done because the lousy fitting and design caused the wood to go bad (although, we have to admit, there was plenty of that) some were done just to get dimensions that allowed for someone to hit something flying in front of the gun.

I don't believe anyone here (except, perhaps, you) would begin to speculate on the Davenport I posted a link to being considered a "Classic". But, it falls into the definition you posted. A definition I find a bit broad when we look into what a shotgun is really supposed to do for us.

Best,
Ted

I would offer that there were numerous factories churning out guns for the "hardware" store market. They are often referred to here as JABC's. Don't think anyone is calling them classics.

Indeed.

Those nasty Europeans, building guns and then forcing American retailers to stock them on their shelves....

The guns were built to the price point that the American companies wanted. Often with their house brand adorning the gun.

Pete

I would assume/infer that you are saying that any gun that is classified as a hardware store gun can never be considered a classic? Most American built guns would �fit� that description of a mass produced gun that is shipped to a store for sale to the general public. And that is pretty much what Ted was saying.

I would guess we would have to define the term "classic".

Treblig, that's not what I'm saying at all.

I'm saying there were similarities as well as differences between the European and American gun making industries. I am saying that just because it is factory made doesn't mean it can't be considered a "classic" as defined by #3 in 2-piper's post. I am saying that the European gun making industry was far from exclusively "hand made" for a specific customer, as I took your post to be saying.

I have 4 lower grade Foxes, 3 lower grade Remingtons and 4 Piepers, all produced in large factories. Using 2-pipers definition, I consider them all to be well made and representative of a certain type of shotgun...."classics" of their kind if you will.

I tend to define "classic", whether for SxS guns, cars, wood boats, art deco architecture or most anything, as being very representative of a certain time and place. Classic isn't defined by me as valuable, collectable or best quality.