doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Double Rifle Drilling - 9.3X74R/16ga

B�chsemann,
what Fuhrmann writes about slugs is right in some ways, in others I have a differnt opinion. Of course slugs are an "option": In former times we had some in the pocket when hunting hares and other small game for also beeing able to shoot a seldom roe or wild boar. My first gun was a Bockb�chsflinte(combination gun) in 7x75 RSE v. Hofe and, of course, 16/70. With Brenneke I had a Double rifle and that works well on shorter distances! In those times all friends and neighbours shot Cal. 16. 12 bore was only for the "Bauern" (Farmers) .� Sounds a bit snobbish and of course it was! But the idea was: A skilled shot didn't need Cal. 12 and beside this, a gun in 16 was much more elegant. I think,that's true till today as well.
But as we all know, the times are a changing, the industry wants to earn more money and "new" ideas are born. It's a little bit the same as with the Kaisergriff. The emperor shot it for physical reasons but I think there were soon some people who found it "chic" to have a gun or rifle with the Emperors grip. Today we have a hype on the "Lochschaft" - don't know the english word, I mean the grip with a whole for the thumb. All advertisement on modern guns praise this grip as the ultima ratio!!!
What I want to say is, all times had their trends and fashions.
The Kaisergriff is widely accepted in Europe for rifles but of course it's, as nearly all, a matter of taste!!!

The grip of your DR Drilling looks nice in my eyes, more as an extra big pistol grip then a Kaisergriff... and I think it was for a man like me:rather tall and with big hands. ;-) For him it surely was a practical advantage!

As for shooting slugs with your Merkel: Of course Kuduae is right: Usually the barrel will shoot lower with slugs and you have to try out how much!

Good luck and enjoi you nice rifle!
Gunwolf

Gunwolf,

I'm leaning in the same direction as you with regard to the "Kaisergriff" on this gun: "The emperor shot it for physical reasons but I think there were soon some people who found it "chic" to have a gun or rifle with the Emperors grip".

Also, the gun must have been made for a larger man or just someone with long arms as the LOP is 14 7/8" (37.78 centimeters). The weight of the gun turned out to be closer to 8 1/2 lbs. I am 6' even and 180 lbs. but the LOP is a little long for me. My .280 Ross clamshell double rifle has a 14 7/8" LOP as well which is something to be thinking about when trying to make a snap shot while wearing heavy clothing. Getting on a fast moving boar with little notice could be a bit of a challenge in early March.

Note on the .280 clamshell double rifle: Axel E. suspects the gun to be a Bernhard Merkel as well. I'd sure like to confirm that someday.

We'll see where the shot tube of the Bemesu DR drilling groups with the rifle barrels. If the group is too large I have other gun options to use a new Brenneke slug on a boar but as I want to do both I'll have to see about shooting two boar. It's an option that suits me just fine as I had a dismal deer hunt earlier in December. I like the taste of the boar that I've been shooting so having a second boar in the freezer and having time in the field with a couple early German combination guns is surely a good thing.

Regards,

Mark

Mark: I would almost bet money that the first owner was once Austrian! The "bow tie" feature behind the Kaisergriff is a clue (as is the grip and cheekpiece), but the engraving reminds me of work seen in Ferlach. It would be scary to know how much that engraving would cost today! Very practical gun as well. Steve

This LOP would be just right for me in a winter coat, I am 6' 5''.
Large hands too, but not THAT large to need such a long pistol grip.
I am actually in doubt if this should be called a "Kaisergriff", it lacks that "forward sweep" at the bottom.
Compare here: http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat....=true#Post95785
(I have seen some rifles with Kaisergriff and other interesting features from the Scherping shop in Hannover in the net - but do not know if they were made there or bought in from Suhl.)

That little "Krawatte" or bow tie behind the pistol grip is interesting, too. Michael Petrov named this the "Shelhammer Chinstrap" in his first book, saying that this became T. Shelhammer's "signature", before 1940.
Indeed you will find this chinstrap on plenty of Ferlach rifles, but all I have seen were newer examples built after WWII, often with a Kaisergriff (plus a hogback, Bavarian cheekpiece, Schnabel forend and all the other curves that generate the "Ferlacher Barock"), but this became fashionable only after 1970 or so. I do not remember having seen any pre-war Austrian stock with "Kaisergriff" or "Krawatte".

Anyway, this chinstrap needs a pretty steep pistol grip, and it is used well on this rifle to mask that protruding bottom of the grip.

My first impression when seeing the pictures in this thread was that this gun might have been restocked, maybe even in the US.
But as it appears to be the original stock, this is very interesting!

fuhrmann

Fuhrmann,

Thank you for the additional explanation with regard to the grip on this gun. I had been told that it was a "Kaiser Grip" and then "Kaisergriff" but after reading what you had to say I did a quick search and yes, the Heinrich Scherping rifles in the NE post and some other later guns shown on the Internet all have a forward sweeping hook (in profile) where the Bemesu looks simply more like an extended grip. The terms used to define the fillet wrapped around the interface of the grip and butt-stock is good to know as well. Whatever the reason for the extended grip I'll go with the notion that the gentlemen that placed the order for this gun was either Austrian or held an Austrian preference to stock design.

Regards,

Mark

PS - Yes, you would be less likely to have this gun get hung up in your armpit on a quick snap.

Mark,

that rifle might fit me like the proverbial glove!
Please allow me too repeat my doubt about this "Austrian link" - I don't think the "bow tie" is "Old Austria" and I do not see any other typical features in the stock.
Can't comment on the engraving, though, I never was much interested in this art.
Gravur schiesst nicht / engraving doesn't shoot, my dad used to say!

Regards,
fuhrmann

By the way, it will fit me too, I'm 6,5 and 95 Kg with big hands� ;-)

Fuhrmann may be right with the stock. Have a look at this nice Sauer & Sohn Suhl from the 1935ies :

Sauer & Sohn Suhl "Krawatte"

Hinterschaft mit Tr�ne, Krawatte und bayrischer Backe mit Doppelfalz, Schaftl�nge 370 mm!

The question is, if the stock is original Suhl or renewed....
The Krawatte is a styling element used by various Gunstockmakers till today.
But obviuosly it's preferred by southern Germany and Austrian/Ferlach makers.

Gunwolf

Fuhrmann,

Funny and true: "Gravur schiesst nicht / engraving doesn't shoot, my dad used to say!"

Similar things are said about automobiles.

I'm pretty much throwing my hands in the air with regards to the origins of the stock design but it has been interesting to read the many opinions and the terminology for the design features i.e. the little "Krawatte" or bow tie behind the pistol grip and "Kaisergriff", not mine apparently. On that note, do know the German name for the style of the cheek-piece on this gun. It�s not typical and it�s certainly isn�t �Tyrolean�.

Regards,

Mark

Gunwolf

I'd bet this is a new stock, new barrels too, maybe (3 inch shells in a 1935 shotgun?).
That buttstock has some newfangled tastelessness in it, who would have put a bavarian cheekpiece and "scottish" checkering to a shotgun in Suhl in the good old days?

Regards
fuhrmann

Fuhrmann,

In your last reply to Gunwolf are you referring to the subject Bemesu DR drilling?

Mark