doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com "Classic" and "American gun" oxymorons?

Except for the sling swivel and and an open right choke I use a gun like just like that for a rainy day upland gun and a field trial gun. It works great in both those functions. I am fifty-nine and the 7-3/4 pounds is becoming too heavy for my creaky shoulders to carry, even on a sling, but it is very effective in those upland pursuits. A very appropriate configuration for someone that could only afford one quality gun. Say for ducks, geese, deer, rabbits, quail, pheasant, grouse, coyotes, and fox.

As far as 15 x 1-1/4 x 1-7/8 being the only acceptable dimensions for good shooting you, along with tens of thousand of others, have fallen prey to the marketing guys again; "Oh, you need ejectors to be effective," "Oh, you need a high stock to shoot well," "Have to have an over and under to shoot really well," "Oh! Need 32 inch barrels - like Digweed," "Have to have adjustable comb," "34 inch barrels are a must," "Need an adjustable rib," "Need adjustable barrel weights," "Need adjustable trigger pulls," ad infinitum. And those Darnes you (and I) hold in such high esteem were generally stocked in the same dimensions of the Parkers you are disparaging (Pre-WWII). And my AHE20 and BHE16 both have over 2-3/4" drop.

It seems I remember a fairly recent post about you having a Darne restocked to the currently fashionable high stock dimensions. Bet that Darne is the envy of all your trap shooting friends.

And I am not a wearer of suspenders. 185 pounds of rippling muscle does fine with a belt.

A "classic" to me is some object or thing that strikes a note of nostalgia, which pleasantly reminds me of a different time.

Some of the definitions of "classic" I have found are:

1. Of lasting interest or significance
2. Continuously in fashion because of its simple and basic style
3. Having historical associations
4. A typical or traditional example.

In this context I find American doubles, such as Parker, Fox, Smith, and Ithaca to strike the precise nostalgic notes to qualify as classics. Whether or not they are mechanically the best and most advanced tools for the job is totally irrelevant.

Brace yourselves [pun intended].

I'd posit that the quintesential American 'classic' SxS is some iteration of the Stevens 311 in whatever gauge makes you happy, but I'd lean toward a 16.

I'm inclined to side w/canvasback on this one. Ain't semantics wounderful!?

Dang TW! We just about had old Ted cornered and then you come in and call the Stevens a classic!

What's a Stevens?

Mike, I think I was getting close but then your shooting student, Joe Wood, nailed it.

Canvasback, I agree wholeheartedly in what you are saying. But, for the sake of argument, is the European market for firearms the same as the American market? Could the �blue-collar� European simply walk into a hardware store and behind all of the hardware implements see brand new guns to buy off the shelf? Complete with their standard length of pull, DAH, DAC and 28 inch barrels with their standard full and modified chokes?

If the answer is yes to these questions then I have no further argument.

Treblig, I don't know enough about firearms retailing in Europe in the period of 1895 to 1939 to confirm or deny.

I suppose part of the answer might stem from information regarding the percentage of output from manufacturers like FN and Pieper that came to NA vs what stayed in the domestic European market.

A significant producer like Manufrance in France had most of it's production stay in the home market.

We see both lower end guns and the high quality production in both markets today. The lower end in Europe got produced and retailed somehow. Pretty sure they weren't made to order, bespoke guns.

How is the market today? Can the average blue-collar European simply buy a brand new shotgun at any appropriate store?

With the proper licensing of course?

So that makes me curious. Up to now I have been more interested in the makers and the factories rather than the retailers.

I'm curious as to why there is little record of how the lower end was retailed. I don't think simply saying (which I am not saying you are alleging) that the records have been lost in the wars is sufficient. We know lots about life in Europe at that time. There are still people living who would remember good portions of it. PeteM, maybe you can shed a little light?? Or perhaps Gettemans, if and when he sees this.

Anyway, back to the topic. We're right, Ted's wrong. LOL

(No offense intended Ted. Just having fun.)