doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Gun breakups and quick-detachable locks?

OK, so here we were at a local gun board, doing nothing, just talking about a Lebeau-Courally model Prince Courakine (Sp?) which someone put up for sale. Here's a pic.



As you can see, it has hand-detacheable Westley Richards type drop locks.

And then the question popped up - was there any real practical advantage of these locks for the Edwardian sportsman?

My answer to this one was: "pure marketing".

First, I struggle to remember a mention of a gun failure in the books. Accidents did happen (I remember reading that Ripon once blew the barrels off gun #1 with gun #3), but, with best guns which were serviced between seasons, that would have been too rare to bother about.

Second, these old chaps shot two and three guns with loaders. One breaks down, you just go on shooting with the other two and deal with the problem later. Walsingham, when after those 1070 record grouse, had three guns to shoot with and one to spare - if any went wrong, would he want to bother with it while birds fly overhead, or simply take another?

Third, OK, your gun doesn't work, you pull out the lock and stare at it. Then what? Can you fix it there and then, right next to your peg? Without any gunsmithing experience? Without tools and workbench?

The third point is my personal biggest question about hand-detacheable locks. An average hunter can't do much in terms of fixing them anyway. Maybe replace a broken mainspring - but even for that you're going to need some tools. And if you have a kit of tools with you, there are screwdrivers in it anyway. Then what's the point of the locks being hand-detacheable?

But the guys there asked me to go out and ask you, dear ladies and gentlemen of the board - what do you think about hand-detacheable locks, WR droplocks in particular?

Do they offer a real advantage?

How common were the failures of shotguns in Victorian/Edwardian driven shoots?

Could a droplock from one WR be put into another WR and work? (Guess not)

How often were WR droplocks ordered with a set of spare locks?

Thank you in advance.

I believe quite a few Westley droplocks were supplied with extra locks. Just a lock or sometimes two show up in the most unusual places. A set of two for a 20 bore Ovundo showed up for sale on this site not long ago. The locks have to be matched to the gun however.

PM, you don't have any idea how much were these 'quite a few' in terms of per cent? About half? More than half? Of course, having a spare lock in your pocket does offer an advantage.

On the other hand, some novelties like ejectors, single triggers, etc., were caught on quickly, with every maker offering his variety. Quick detachable locks - there's only WR, then Holland's, and, for hunting guns, that seems to be all. The only place where they gained some popularity is high-end competition shotguns.

IMO some side locks are quick detachable too; just open one screw with finger tips and then pull those lock plates away using that same screw as a tool.

Yes, that's Holland and Holland's patent sidelocks.

I think the original intention of the droplock/detachable design was to create a pinless action that was more suitable for engraving.


OWD

HD,

Your scenario of the English gentleman not NEEDING drop locks is very accurate, IMO. However, later you ask "Do they offer a real advantage?". Yes, in some cases. Own and shoot a Perazzi, which has drop locks, and you will soon see the value in it. It is not the great task to replace a broken spring that you described it to be. Very simple procedure. I can drop my locks, replace a broken spring, and be back shooting in full swing in 4 minutes, easy, and I'm not practiced at it because I've never had a broken spring in mine. I consider the drop lock Perazzi the ultimate gun for isolated, high volume shooting. Cleaning and lubing them is also another very real advantage.

I love'em.

SRH

OWD - that's what I read, too. I find it difficult to believe, though - I don't find two small pins on a typical Brit A&D action too objectionable.

Stan - yes, I see your point. However, I didn't say spring replacement was 'difficult'. I find it pretty easy even on an A&D gun, once I've done it a couple of times. However, I guess even on a Perazzi you can't do it without some tool and a flat surface - or can you?

I read somewhere that the Westley Richards started out to make a pinless boxlock for engraving (of course for marketing) and realized they had a droplock.

I had always supposed that the advantage to drop locks was the ability to dry off, clean and oil the locks after a rainy day shoot. But I never read of any Westley advertisements extolling that advantage.

I have gotten old in the last few years and given it up, but I used to, on occasion, shoot dove in the rain. Would have been nice to have popped out the locks and layed them in the truck defroster vents on the way home. I did that with the gun broken down and it seemed to work OK.

As I understand it, you have to remember the time those locks were created: The United Kingdom that meant Africa, India etc. Carrying your gun/rifle in these tropical climate it was an advantage to be able to drop them out or replace them.
If I lived in those times I would have carried of course some extra locks with me as PM wrote. Time and countries needed some "spare wheels" ;-)
In the book of Westley Richards there are several guns and rifles with extra locks in a nice and practical leather bag.

Gunwolf