doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Value added by provenance?

I hold with those who've opined that provenance adds little value except in 'celebrity' cases. However researching the history of a particular gun and developing provenance can be great fun.

Despite the dire,and I believe sincere warnings of the Malevolent Memphian I bought a tomato stake Boss last year that I thought I could salvage. I went to the extreme to pay Boss 50 pounds for a xerox copy of the original record of the order and building of the gun. It was built in 1860 as a pin-fire and later converted to center-fire.

When I researched the name of the original owner I found that he was a son of the 4th Earl of Harewood, that he went into the ministry, that he was an official of Ripon Cathedral, and that he lived during the same period of time that the namesake of the Cathedral was doing all that bird shooting. The two were of equal social status and I have no doubt that my Boss at some point in its history occupied a spot on some shoot next to the Earl deGrey, Ripon.

If you'd like to be impressed google 'Harewood House' and check out the digs my gun's owner grew up in. In comparison Downton's a hovel. If you watched the latest Royal Family marriage coverage you may have noticed an elderly gentleman in the family photos with a snow white pointy beard. That was the Queen's 1st cousin (I think) the 7th Earl of Harewood.

I found that I could do nothing about properly restoring the Boss and despite Joe's opinions managed to pass it along at a small profit to another member here. Considering the provenance of the gun, I would have been happy though to have kept it as a wall-hanger and to have thought of the rich history of the gun through the absolute zenith of British wing shooting whenever I looked at it...Geo

I guess it's how we think of value. There is value to some of where the gun has been and who owned it. Each time I handle my plain A&N I think of the British shops where public and military servants bought their cigars, gin, pistols and shotguns. Same with my Francotte with the name of original owner on the rib, captain of the first US Olympic trap team in 1912. The chokes and shorter barrels were obviously for the hardwoods of New England. My 1899 hammer 16 Parker is the same model as Annie Oakley's. Each time I hunt with them I handle them more tenderly.

many years ago I acquired two guns from a G.I. who's outfit occupied Hohenzollern castle during WW2. one being a sauer sxs hammer rifle built in 1893 also a matching hammered drilling of 1893. I never figured that increased the value or cared but with all my fine guns owned they would be the last to go. there are some things that you just like and money or provenance doesn't influence its desirability.

I remember Buddy Hackett's guns (Parker Repros?) being advertised for a long time above common market value. They lowered the price to about market/top of market and they disappeared from the web. Cabelas had some guns from a NASCAR driver a few years back. They tried to get above market, but I think they dropped prices to about top of the market.

The famous publishing giant "Pete" Peterson's guns brought wholesale prices, here in America, right in Southern California where he's most famous!

If it were John Wayne's collection of guns, some of which were used in movies, they'd bring a premium, I'm sure. Maybe even in England.

Man, I pity the poor souls that'll have to face paying the ultra-premium prices for my guns when they hit the market. HAH!

have a day

Dr.WtS

If that provenance happened to be my grandfather(s), you wouldn't want to be bidding against me. Other than that, the only value of provenance to me, and most others I suspect, is speculation. If I were to buy a well used Colt on a hunch, and proved later that it had provenance to Hickock, that provenance would have value. (all the way to James Julia's)

SRH

Some years ago; in a Cabela's store I was working in; a young woman and her husband came into the store with a nice old handgun:
We did an appraisal on it for her, and as she was leaving, she said "Does it help the value if Buffalo Bill gave this to my grandfather?" We said "Wow, Do you have any documentation?" She said "No; grandfather used to sell livestock hay to Buffalo Bill, and he was given the gun by him as a token of his appreciation."
We told her unfortunately, without some kind of provenance, the value is the same.
Ah well.......such is life.
Sam

A guns provenance can sometimes be so hard to believe in fact you can even say it can�t all be true. One of my guns was made for as someone has said already said one of the Brit gentry but what a man and what a life he had. Starting with a feud over a horse with a Marquis, the horse in question then won the Epsom Derby with odds of 10000 to 15 wiping out a large number of bookmakers the said Marquis ran off with his fianc�e causing a massive scandal. The Marques bet against the horse wining which financially broke him, King Edward the V11 was a close friend of the guns owner and after things quietened down on a recommendation of the King he became a politician MP and then the first Brit minister of Agriculture, gambled and purchased horses as if his life depended on it which in the end caused him to sell of the family estate.
If I told you his name you would say who!!!!! And the book telling part of the story was a top seller every where but here in the UK so I think the story may add a pound or two to the guns selling price but you can never tell.

Chuck hasn't paid much attention to Robert Petersen's (not Peterson's) guns at auction. His guns are the finest of the fine and sell for good prices, although maybe not because of Petersen provenance. His Parker Invincibles, although not sold for a few years, are insured and appraised for about five million, although not because of Petersen provenance. I guess Chuck has a point.

I guess I mistook a bunch of those buyers as dealers and wannabe dealers. Hmmm. Maybe they were all hunters and collectors.