doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Land Management Practices..... Then and Now

I was recently on a a fellow forum memeber's blog, dogsanddoubles.com.

He posted about a how land management practices in New England have decimated a once thriving grouse and pheasant population. Old farmland and pastures once provided for some of the finest pheasant hunting in the country. Once the fields went fallow, young trees tooks over and grouse thrived. But now those scrubs have turned into mature forest so thick they are void of quality upland bird habitat.

Here is the proof in the pudding. This is a valley somewhere is Massachusetts.




In my part of the country (Southeast Alabama), you'll find a similar problem. We also have another big problem... and that's the loss of native, fire-maintained pineywoods. These woods provided excellent habitat for bobwhites but due to increased commodity prices, many acres of pinewoods are being cut, cleared, and converted to irrigated agricultural land.

I experienced this a couple seasons ago when we lost our quail lease when the landowner decided to covert the property to farmland.

It started as this.


After clear cutting and stump removal.


Now in peanut production.


No wonder why the Eastern United States have seen such declines in bird numbers.

Adam

I agree with you Adam in terms of disappearance of Piney woods and the disappearance of quail in your native Alabama. An equally severe problem and the scourge of America is fescue, which IMHO should be outlawed. Also of great harm to the Midwest and deep south quail is insecticides/herbicides. Because of these things, the poor bobwhite quail doesn't have a chance. Sad, and it's even called progress.

Look for the silver lining in the dark clouds, Adam. The loss of quail habitat has increased the dove habitat. Those peanut fields are fine fodder for late season dove shoots.

While I completely understand your concern, and have the same concerns myself about loss of quail habitat, I try to be pragmatic, and optimistic. As Uncle Versy used to say, "It coulda been worse". They could'a planted the whole thing in loblolly pines at 740/acre.

You're a young man. Learn to "roll with the punches". When one door closes another one opens.

SRH

agreed

I have a photo of the area my family settled after the Revolution, the picture was taken in the late 1800s. It matches nearly exactly the one on the left in your set. the hill and most of the valley is mature timber now, as in your right picture.

I was at a fly fishing event this past weekend, we were discussing this same topic(you can always find a grouse hunter at a fly fishing event. From Maine to PA, its the same.

buzz,

The arguments about insecticides and herbicides are way, way outdated. There are practically no pesticides used now that are really dangerous to quail. The worst, Temik, was pulled from the market a couple years ago. The insecticides we use are made from chrysanthemums, all in the family of pyrethrins. Same family of pyrethrins the exterminator sprays in your house for roaches and silverfish. I don't know of any herbicides that we use that are directly harmful to birds of any kind.

The issues with the decline of quail are much more complex that pesticides. Habitat loss is the biggie, but there are many, many others that farmers are not to blame for.

The big question concerning habitat loss is this: With the world's population increasing at an exponential rate, and the demand for food to feed them increasing likewise, how many of you are willing to pay what food would cost if it were grown the way the tree huggers all want it to be. I decry the habitat loss as well, but people must be fed and clothed.

SRH

I don't know if I buy your argument 100% there Stan. Quail need insects, chicks need aphids to survive. Chemicals and fescue really hurt insect production. Also, maybe for you doves are a satisfactory replacement for quail, but NOT for me. Take care and I hope you have some more fun dove hunts in Georgia. Looks like an enjoyable time from your photos.

In the southwest, the problems are related to corporate farming and clearing of every square foot of irrigable land. The ditchbanks and windbreaks are disappearing and there goes the habitat for quail, pheasant, doves, cottontails. There is also a lot more posted land, even bare dirt, then there ever used to be. Seems to be related to produce buyers not wanting any foreign stuff in their loads, so the farmers just post everything, whether it has a crop in it or not.

I don't deny that we kill insects with our insecticides, buzz, we do. It is a necessity to feed the world. What I was talking about was secondary kill. Many years ago there were insecticides that were so bad that the insects that were killed by spraying would kill birds, when eaten by them. They are no longer used, and haven't been for many years. But, most of the general public thinks they are still in widespread use.

Don't know about fescue, I'm too far South for it, but I have heard it creates a desert for quail. Of course, so does bermuda grasses, of which there are hundreds of thousands of acres in the South for cattle grazing in warm season. Again, people want protein.

Doves aren't a replacement for quail, by any means. But, it is what it is. People will be fed and clothed. If I can have a choice between planting land in peanuts or pine plantation, as far as wildlife habitat goes, it'll be the peanuts every time. I have seen two coveys of wild quail in one 42 acre peanut field in late summer, in the last few years, eating bugs. Contrary to popular belief, we don't spray to kill every bug that is out there. Quail don't only eat aphids, grasshoppers and worms (larvae), but many beneficial insects which we try to protect.

Not trying to be argumentative, but just present the facts as I see them from a daily working relationship with the land and the wildlife.

All my best, SRH

Ironic that the top left pic shows land largely cleared and in food production- good. Bottom pics show land largely cleared and in food production- bad. Top right photo shows lots of trees- bad. Next photo shows fair number of trees- good.

OP did point out the issue with the density of the trees in top rt. photo, far greater of course than the lovely pines that our beloved bobs like to call home. So while my comparisons are not perfect, and I mourn the decline of Gentleman Bob, I thought the juxtaposition of photos and perspectives interesting.

Mike

According to Cornell Ornithology lab the northern bobwhite is down 90% in numbers in many areas. Many songbirds are down drastically too in the Appalachian area.Many factors play a part in this.