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Joined: Jun 2011
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2011
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GGentlemen, just recently, I bought a period photo of a proud German hunter posing with two killed foxes and an unusual shotgun: The shotgun is odd for two reasons: 1/ The large name K. KERTSCHER (or K. KERISCHER) carved on the stock the nightmare of any collector. Obviously, the owner of the gun wasnt a fan of understatement. 2/ the odd large horn trigger guard looks like a lever for cocking/decocking the gun or a grip safety. Does anybody know the shotgun system? Anything comparable known regarding the grip lever? Best regards Martin
Last edited by sauerfan; 06/14/13 01:39 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,445 Likes: 201
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,445 Likes: 201 |
sauerfan, Could it be a Meffert? Mike
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737 Likes: 181
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737 Likes: 181 |
Meffert was my 1st thought but it might be sourced from F. W. Keler: SicherheitSgebhr von F. W. Keler in Suhl mit beweglichen Bgelgriff Es ist entweder der nach dem Zuklappen dce Gewehres etwas abstehende Bgelgriff unmittelbar beim Anschlagen anzudrcken (Fig 623), oder es ist ein aus dem Baskulenschmeife sitzender Knopf zurck zuschieben. Im allgemeinen haben die Selbstspanner sehr an Verbreitung zugenommen. Die Borzge der selben bestehen in der Raschheit des Ladens und in dem freien Blick, den das Fehlen der Hahnen gestattet. Nicht unerwhnt soll bleiben da durch die Konstruktion der Selbstspanner Crachement sd nicht... Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737 Likes: 181
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
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Did both Imman. Meffert & Karl Leberecht of Amberg have an "Ideal Gewehr" and "IdealDrilling" or was it solely Karl Leberecht circa 1913? The term was Gewehrsicherung "Ideal". Leberecht had Austrian patent Nr. 52801 and French patent Nr. 433161 which was similar and also some odd device in DRP Nr. 188300
Kind Regards,
Raimey rse
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Joined: Jan 2011
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2011
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The gun shown in Martin Krause's photos is an Immanuel Meffert, Suhl "Hubertus" safety gun, a later type with toplever opening. The unique triggerplate lockwork was invented and patented by the forester Franz Feist, Sommerschenburg, DRPatent # 7142 of 1879. I have an earlier example with the Lefaucheux underlever breech action, datable to 1893 both by the crown/V mark and family history. Opening the gun pushes back the hammers to the cocked position, as usual. Releasing that pistolgrip-like lever from the small of the stock partially uncocks the mainspring (yes, there is only one four-pronged omega-shaped spring in that double gun!), blocks the triggers and blocks the hammers back from the firing pins. If you want to use the gun you press that lever back to the stock, where it is caught by a little latch. Will post some photos soon. Only much later "Hubertus" became a more general I.Meffert trademark applied to drillings and other guns.
Last edited by kuduae; 06/23/13 02:30 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 246 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 246 Likes: 2 |
The action area of my own I.Meffert "Hubertus" safety gun. The lockwork of this perfectly round actioned gun with the unique mainspring. This is the type of lock usually found in the "Hubertus" guns until end of production around WW1. "Safe" position. Another, even much earlier Meffert "Hubertus" gun. This V-spring lockwork is still much closer to Franz Feist's 1879 patent drawing."Fire" position in lockwork photo
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 297 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 297 Likes: 3 |
Well, I think that Kuduae nailed the gun.I also did some research but coulden't find the relativ patent. However for those who have the "Waffenschmied" issue's there is an article plus pictures in the Issue Nr 16. Marc.
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 53
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 53 |
Hi Axel, thank you very much for solving the mystery I agree with Marc: you probably nailed it! (although: Mike Der Ami was the first who came up with Meffert). And I agree: the basic idea already was subject of German Patent # 7142 owned by Franz Feist. Interestingly, according to the Akah catalog of 1898/99, Meffert owned a utility model (DRGM) No. 32,200. According to the DRGM number, it was registered in 1894. Best regards Martin
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 246 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 246 Likes: 2 |
DRGM 32200, 25.09.1894: "U-frmig gebogene, bis zum Bug aufgesgte Doppelschlagfeder fr hahnloses Jagdgewehr". this protected the U-shaped mainspring.(Waffenzeitung Suhl 1895) But it must have been made before, as my Hubertus-Gewehr shown above already has that spring. As my gun has the crown/V Vorratszeichen proof exemption mark, which was only struck on guns ready for sale between January 4, 1893 (date of the order) and March31,1893. "The V stamps are to be destroyed after April 1, 1893" as the proof law was then fully effective. The 1895 Waffenzeitung also has ads by I.Meffert. Here he advertises Hubertus guns both with the Lefaucheux breech action wit horn clad lever under foreend and, at a higher price, with top lever action like the gun on Krause's pre-WW1 photo.
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 246 Likes: 2
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 246 Likes: 2 |
Via Belgium I was asked to post this photo from Sweden. It shows an unusual I.Meffert "Hubertus" gun with the underlever curled "British style" over the triggerguard, probably made for export. BTW, as the barrel lump shape shows, it is a common continental double-grip Lefaucheux lockup, only the opening lever is bent back instead of the usual position under the foreend. It is not a "Lancaster action" which was a slide-and-tilt action like those by Gastinne and Collath. Nor is it a "Jones action" which has an upright locking "turret" inserted into the action bar from below and lugs shaped different.
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