doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Who are the poor suckers?????

Thanks

Hello oscar, to show your photo,

all you have to do is type in a [img] with no spaces before your sting and type in a [/img] after the string with no spaces

Give it a try

Good luck
Mike

Did anyone notify GunBroker about the scam? They'll stop this sale.

AkMike,

Great idea! It is done...

"Dear Sir or Madam,

There is a fraudulent auction taking place. It is for a faked John Rigby & Co. London .410 ga 410 SxS Sidelock; Auction # 342625474. The gun is actually a Crescent Arms.

There is a thread on Doublegunshop.com where many are discussing this:
http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=326359&nt=3&page=1

Respectfully submitted,
Mark Ouellette"

Ah! The Marines have landed. Good for you Mark!

According to Nigel Brown's "British Gunmakers" , this serial number was used by Rigby between 1830-1835. Long before the 410 existed, much less cartridges.

Ron Gabriel in his " American & British 410 Shotguns" makes no mention of Rigby as a maker of 410 shotguns.



Take a look at the bell of the barrels here. Looks amazing like the crescent photo posted above.



Rigby would never allow this glaring miss fit to leave the shop.



As to the "12 King Street" address on the barrels:
Rigby was indeed on King Street;
In 1931 J W C Barratt (formerly of J Barratt & Son of 6 Mitre Street, Aldgate) managed the Sackville Street shop, he was still with the company in 1955 when the shop moved to 32 King Street, St James's.

In 1984 J Roberts & Son (Gunmakers) Ltd bought the company and in 1985 moved it to their premises at 5 King Street, Covent Garden

However, the only gunmaker I can find at "12 King Street" was George Mason;
George Mason, son of John of Sydney Street, Stepney, he was recorded in business at 128 High Street, Whitechapel in 1837. He was next recorded in 1840 at 12 King Street, Commercial Road when he became a freeman of the Gunmakers Company.

Pete

Here is a bit about Rigby.

John Rigby was born in Dublin in 1758. At one time the firm claimed establishment in 1735, others claim it was established in 1775 when John would have been 17 years of age, and married his wife, Catherine.
A John Rigby was a gun maker in Dublin in 1635, it is likely he was related but this has not been confirmed. The John Rigby who "founded" the famous firm may well have inherited the family business of a relative.

By about 1800 the firm traded from 19 Suffolk Street, Dublin, as gun and pistol manufacturers, they were involved in wholesale, retail and export markets. By this time the firm had been appointed "Gunmakers to His Majesty's Ordnance".

John Rigby died in 1818 and his sons, William Rigby and John Jason Rigby took over, re-naming the firm Wm & Jno Rigby (also sometimes known as W & J Rigby).

In 1841 the firm were recorded in the Dublin Almanac and General Register of Ireland as William & John Rigby, gun barrel factory and shooting gallery, 24 Suffolk Street and Wicklow Street. Precisely when they moved to 24 Suffolk Street is not known.

John Jason Rigby died in the early 1850s but the name of the firm did not change.

In 1854 a patent was granted for improvements to firearms (No. 1976).

When William Rigby died in 1858 his son, John (b.1829), succeeded to the business but again, the name of the business did not change. John saw the potential of the London market and in about 1859 opened an office or showroom at 9 Staple Inn, Holborn.

On 10 April 1860 another patent together with W N Norman was taken out for a sideways sliding revolver barrel (No. 899).

Also in 1860, on 21 December, John Rigby and J Needham patented a hinged and sliding chamber for a breech action and the coiled brass cartridge case (No. 3140).

On 8 July 1862 a patent was granted to J Rigby for a horizontally hinged barrel (No. 1966).

In 1866 the firm opened a showroom at 72 St James's Street, London, and the name changed to John Rigby & Co.

On 6 February 1867 a rebounding lock was patented (No. 332).

In 1871 a locking hook which entered the rear lumps was patented(No. 1098), this patent also covered miniature rifle tubing.

In 1875 John Rigby and W M Scott patented a choke reinforcing device (No. 312).

In 1879 John Rigby and T Bissell patented their rising third bite (No. 1141).

On 21 March 1882 John Rigby and L F Banks patented a side-lever falling block rifle (No. 1361).

On 28 January 1884 John Rigby patented a trigger safety (No. 2274).

In 1887 John Rigby was appointed Superintendent of the Royal Small-Arms factory at Enfield which was making the Lee Enfield .303 rifle. In his absence his son, Ernest John Rigby, ran the business with his younger brother, Theo.

On 10 November 1888 John Rigby patented a bayonet attachment clip (No. 16321).

In about 1890 the firm was appointed gun maker to the Prince of Wales.

The 1891 census records John as John M A Rigby. He was living at Ordnance House, Ordnance Road, Enfield, with his wife, Julia (b.1843 in Huddersfield, Yorkshire) and their children, Hugh M (b.1871 a medical student), Arthur B (b.1872 an engineering student), Ethel S (b.1878 and listed as Ethel G in the 1901 census) and Claude M (b.1882); all the children were born in Ireland.

By 1892, managing the Dublin and London businesses was proving difficult and the firm decided to move all their manufacturing to London. Trulock & Harris (Trulock, Harris & Richardson) took over the Dublin business, and a factory was opened at 12 Ham Yard, Great Windmill Street.

In 1897 John Rigby became Chairman of the Gunmakers Association, a position he held until 1900.

Also in 1897 John Rigby and L E Atkins patented a single trigger mechanism (No. 301) and the firm made the first .450 calibre cordite rifle. Rigby subsequently introduced the .416 and their .275 became the standard deer stalking rifle. The first .600 rifle was made for W J Jeffery in 1903, other rifle makers followed notably John Wilkes, but Rigby did not make .600 rifles until 1980.

In 1900 the firm became a limited liability company, John Rigby & Co (Gunmakers) Ltd.

In the 1901 census John and Julia were recorded living at 34 Lewin Road, Streatham, with a previously unrecorded son, Ernest J (b.1869). Both Ernest J and Theodore were described as gun manufacturers. At some time the family lived at 175 Branswick Street.

In 1906, the government banned the sale in India and Sudan of, for non-military use, guns and ammunition, cartridge cases and bullets of .450 and .303 calibres (the military calibres). There were substantial numbers of these rifles, and in the wrong hands these were an obvious risk. In direct response to the ban Rigby developed the .470 cartridge which competed with Holland's .500/.465, Jeffery's .475 and Westley Richards .476 cartridge. In the smaller calibres, the .360 HV Express became popular.

On 25 January 1908 Theo Rigby registered patent No. 1722 for cocking indicator on the lock plate of a side-lock action.

In 1908 the company moved to 43 Sackville Street and in 1911 they expanded the factory from 12 to 12 & 13 Great Windmill Street. The factory manager at this time was Bob Henderson who had previously worked for Boss & Co and had helped design the famous Boss over/under shotgun.

In 1914 Ernest Rigby became Master of the Gunmakers Company.

In 1916 John Rigby died.

In 1924 the factory moved to smaller premises at 5 Crown Yard, Stanhope Street.

In 1925 Theo Rigby became Chairman of the Gunmakers Company.

In 1931 J W C Barratt (formerly of J Barratt & Son of 6 Mitre Street, Aldgate) managed the Sackville Street shop, he was still with the company in 1955 when the shop moved to 32 King Street, St James's.

In the 1930s the company used John Wilkes for repair and restoration work, and for the supply of Birmingham made guns.

In 1963 the shop moved to 28 Sackville Street and in 1969 to 13 Pall Mall.

In 1973 the workshop moved to 100 St Martin's Lane. At about this time the company was run by David Marx but whether or not he owned it is unknown.

In 1984 J Roberts & Son (Gunmakers) Ltd bought the company and in 1985 moved it to their premises at 5 King Street, Covent Garden.

In 1987 the factory and shop moved to 66-68 Great Suffolk Street, Southwark.

From 1993 if not a little before, Abbiatico & Salvinelli and possibly other makers supplied guns to Rigby.

In 1997 the goodwill and rights to the Rigby name were bought by Rogue River Rifle Works and a new company, John Rigby & Co Inc. was formed at 1317 Spring Street, Paso Robles, California 93446, USA Tel; 0018052274706, Fax; 0018052274723. The records of the company are held there, although some information may be available from J Roberts & Son (Gunmakers) Ltd, 22 Wyvil Road, Vauxhall, London SW8 2TG; Tel 0207 6221131.

Pete

We'll see. I reported an outright scam to GB on the 18th of this month. It took them 6 days to respond, and here's what they sent me:

Contact Customer Service
Issue #: 542386
Status:
Closed
Date Opened: Saturday, May 18, 2013
Item Number: 342148499
Subject: Fraud
5/24/2013 9:13:33 PM
GBSupport1111 Thank you - we will review the listings.
5/18/2013 12:53:51 AM
Gregory Westberg I see that the same gun is being offered by two different sellers. Same pictures and description. Item Number: 342301464 and 342148499

It could also be that the seller doesn't know sh** about Rigby or any other Brit maker and is going off the what's stamped on the gun and the ratty case. Who knows, he may have bought it thinking it was an original Rigby. Not defending him, he should do his research before posting a gun for sale. Just a possibility.

Best!

Greg

It's a spoof.

Like a Ford Pinto with a Rolls Royce hood ornament.

Somebody really went over the top to create this.

It's beautiful.

The 'proof' marks are a hoot.