doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Double rifle cartridge question?

Well:
For what ever reason Winchester chose not to do so. I have been told in the past that they believed it would be difficult to get a magazine fed bolt action to feed this type of cartridge reliably. If this is in error so be it.
And considering the intended use of this rifle reliability was of primary importance.
However Winchester had no issues with chambering their Model 70 for the 375 Holland & Holland which is of course the parent case for the 458 Magnum.
I stand by my initial response that the 458 Magnum in the Winchester Model 70 filled a need perceived by Winchester for that American hunter making an occasional safari while retaining utility for other purposes and that was my whole intent in responding to this thread to begin with.
Jim

That's true, but the original inquiry was about extraction/ejection problems with belted/rimless cartridges in a double rifle.
Mike

Thanks, Mike. I had wondered if folks had forgotten....
BTW: Kreigoff (sp) offeres thier doubles in 375 H&H. Why not some other rounds? Case body taper? Just sayin'...

I agree and that question was answered in the 2nd post in the thread. The thread would probably have ended there if that other guy didn't start making some IMO unfounded statements inre. to the 458 Winchester Magnum. In case you haven't noticed ;He has conveniently exited from the thread. If you want to probe someone's intent why don't you contact him. I'm out of here.
Jim

I contacted Searcy today and he will only chamber rimmed rounds. I still wonder how some makers will chamber in 375 H&H, but not other rimless rounds. Maybe the the case taper in the 375? What say you...

Reliable extraction is the main reason you want rimmed on a DG rifle. It's only going to take 1 mess up with those tiny pawls slipping past the rim, then you're dead.
I have a 300 H&H DR that has ripped thru the rim and were stuck in the chamber. I'm a believer in a healthy rim for a DGF rifle.

Good answer, Mike. That is the type of help I was looking for. Not an editorial...

Because of the basic design of 'most' double rifles they can't handle the pressures of modern necked rounds.
The old ways are the best ways for the most part. There's no need to re-invent the wheel if it still works good.
There is a German rifle, Kreighoff IIRC that will build a 500/416 if you need a 416. I don't care for their silly 'decocker button' but that's just me.
But a 450,470 0r 500 will handle anything you want. If not there's always the 577 or 600 or 700.
Bailey Bradshaw will put a rimless round in his falling block DR. It'll cost a bunch more for it though.

Italiansxs,

I haven't exited this thread, I've just been sitting back reading the replies. I didn't say that a double rifle had to be used by the shooter, I know only too well how expensive they are. All the British NE rounds can be also used in a bolt action rifle as well. Certainly rifles with bolt actions large enough to take the longest cases in NE calibres aren't either common or cheap but they are cheaper than British made doubles even if you have to have them custom built in the USA.

I stand by my original statement that there was no real need for either of the US cartridges. Unless of course it was to promote the gun makers ammo sales.

Harry

Harry:
And it least for the most part its is still a free Country here. I expect there are thousands of owners of the 458 Winchester Magnum that would totally disagree with your assertion.
Current ammunition "shortages" aside; anyone can walk into any well stocked sporting goods store here and walk out with 458 Winchester ammo and at a reasonable price.
Try that with the 470 Nitro Express or one of the more exotic big bore British cartridges. I expect you understand the price differential and availability issues.
Are you now maintaining that the British makers didn't develop their own cartridges to promote the gun makers ammo sales?
Jim