doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Merkel Combo Gun -- Need Basic Info

Now this is embarassing, the 70mm chamber is listed right on the "gun card".Was the gun card shown in the slide show in the begining? If you go back to the slide show now,it is shown; was it added later? There was an awful lot of discussion about whether it was marked 16/70 or not, and I never did see clear photos of the shotgun barrel's proof marks. Clear photos would have prevented a lot of misunderstanding.
Mike

The gun cards were not received/available until last night, and they were not posted until this morning. No reason to be embarrassed. You guys commented based on the information provided in the order it was posted. I have photographed all the proof marks I can find. The photo quality (above) is not the greatest, but I have seen all the visible markings and have seen nothing indicating "70 mm" for the shotgun chamber length. (Remember, they did not put the "R" in "7x57" either, and the 2 are different cartridges, and one should not be used [7x57]). I was looking for additional proof marks when we discussed removal of the 6 screws to remove to 2 top wood panels. Then someone opined that there will be no proof marks under the panels (whew!). I will look again for more proof marks. Thanks again, all, for your interest and help.

TexasJack

I still contend that there ARE proofmarks under the wood as we have not seen the Crown over S, encircled 16, etc. for the scattergun tube. Those all but have to be under the wood unless they are visible from some other view. Don't know who opined without a re-read but I don't think that to be correct.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Texasjack, sorry for beeing so late. I had to phtograph a reportage about a german Master Gunmaker in Cologne and of course I ask him for helping me to read the cards... ;-) (Max Ern, http://www.max-ern.com/english/home.htm if you are interested)
OK, here we go:

Card No. 1 from above left:

Head: Bock = over and under Flinte = Gun read O/U Ejektor Gun Model 200E

Lauf= Barrel : Cal. 16/70 mm, B�hler Steel made with "Weichlot" =Soft solder

later Combo Gun Barrels are installed

System: Model B with Ejektors

Meister= Master (his name, cannot read exact) with Date ..... delivered: August 6, 1928

Schaft= Stock with measure, (length is 368 cm so you can see, if it is original!) Hornb�gel means Triggerguard made of Horn

Stockmakers name with date 15.8.1928
another name date 21.8.1928 raus=out

right side from above:

fernrohr= Scope
wird geliefert von= delivered from
Viesierung= Sight : Elfenbeikorn= Front sight made of Ivory

Einschie�en= shooting: 16/70 mm very good shot capacity

in red: date 21.8.28 weight: 6 pound (=3 kg)

Gravur=Engraving Model 200E

Sonstiges=miscellaneous

# Com Hptm Hamer (as I read) that means in my opinion: Commission Captain Hammer (his name) that means the gun was made for a german Military Officer (private but the title always was important)
Liefertermin= Date of delivery: 31.8.28 in red: Einzellieferung= single order


Card No. 2 (Your Gun!) from above left:

Head: Combo Gun Inlay Barrel in Number 16141 with Ejector Mod260E Name of the Master Commission number 0339, Gun Number 16867


Barrel: 67 cm long Cal. 16//70mm 7x57R
B�hler Steel Weichlot
Name "Br�utigam" 12.8.29
delivered 15.2.29

ordered by: on: delivered:

System: Inlay Barrel with Ejector in O/U BE 16141

Meister= Master: Brocke? (his name delivered: 4.3.29

another name Hamm? 6.3.29 (I think making date) 6.3.29
further name Harling? 15.3.29 aus=ausgef�hrt= made or ready

right side from above:


Fernrohr=Scope: Zeiss Zielvier with Abkommen=sight 5

wird geliefert von=will be delivered from: uns=us # 32085 behind this a name and date 8.3.29

Montage=Montage: zum Einhaken auf Mitte mit Durchsicht= Claw Mount on middle with looking through (means you can look through beneath the scope feets)

Viesierung:

Einschie�en=shooting 16/70mm Schrot=Shot Nr. 3 good dispersion not scattering too much
7x57R 3,2 gramms of leaf powder No. 2 26mm Ogivalgescho�= Ogival Bullet of 26mm length

in red Fleckschu� = on the point 8.3.29

Gravur= Engraving

Sonstiges=miscellaneous:

# Commission Hammer (name of the captain see above, that means one year after buying a gun he wanted a combo in addition)



Uuufffff - finished!

A very nice story, wish I had such an interesting gun, all original and with complete history

Kind Regards,
Gunwolf

a little bit tired by now... ;-)

Have a look into the Merkel Stammbuch:

http://www.merkel-die-jagd.de/en/extras/virtual-stammbuch0/

Here you will find the Gun Cards of some famous people, among others that of Boxer Max Schmeling and his O/U Double Gun 323E

Gunwolf

Gunwolf, first, thank you very much for this fine work. It is greatly appreciated. Second, I will have a few questions as soon as I can fully absorb the information. My first follows. Does this information indicate that somewhere there is an O/U shotgun barrel with serial number 16141 that I do not have in my possession, i.e the ORIGINAL and ONLY barrel for this gun until a year later the 16876 serial numbered COMBO barrel was manufactured? That is to say, originally this gun was a shotgun only. Then later the Owner ordered an added combo barrel which was manufactured with the Ziess scope included from the Merkel factory?

TexasJack

Yes, you are right! This was a very usual process at that time. First there was the Gun, later you got a Combo in addition. Think it is nearly impossible to find the O/U Barrel....!

Best,
Gunwolf

I WANT THAT O/U SHOTGUN BARREL!!!

DO THE GUN CARDS INDICATE IT WAS 12 GAUGE? 16 GAUGE? 28 GAUGE? 20 GAUGE?

16 GA. of course! (See Card 1!) It's a 16 bascule.
I think you can let you make a shotgun barrel by
Merkel itself.....!

Gunwolf

Texasjack,
The original barrels were 16ga 2 3/4"(70mm).It is very unlikely that you will be able to find them now.They were likely just not turned in by Cpt.Hammer or his family, if he did not survive the war.I guess you could make an effort to find his family;but if you did and they still have the barrels, you would have the hard decision to make-ask for the barrels or return the gun.That is a decision I would not like to make. It's unusual for the factory to actually mount the scope,and they may have had one of the other "Masters" listed on the card do it for them as an "outside job".Of course they would have the ability, and may have done it,but that work would slowdown the production line.The different serial numbers are also a little unusual.While it may differ from maker to maker,my Heym ( also 16/70-7x57R and 16/70+16/70)has the same serial number on both sets of barrels.They were made at the same time, but a third set made later, by the factory, has the same number; as does a fourth set made by Walter Grass.I noted that the "card" had the weight of shot listed, but instead of bullet weight the length of 26mm.I did not check, but believe this to be 11.2 grams(173 grains). If you did not find a 16 in a circle with a 70 next to it,it must be under the forearm, in spite of my previous opinion.
Mike