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Sorry brother, no clue. Might be some specimens at The Southern this weekend though

Drew, do you know if any certificates exist that accompanied the tubes or tubesets? Considering the misspelling and W(so that they would know it was Whitworth?) on the flats, WC seems to have another point that the makers applied the stamps. Apparently the American makers did not follow suite. I would tend to think that these tubes used by the American makers were sourced along the same lines as all the rest, Cockerill, Krupp, etc.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

That is interesting, probably happenstance, but the Dingley Act/Tariff of 1897(Rep. Nelson Dingley, Jr. of Maine) may have increased the import of rough bored tubes from Belgium as I've read that 1/3 of the sporting weapons imports were tubes/tubesets from Liege. WWI of course put the nip on the imports but even by 1909 when the Payne-Aldrich act, which was to relieve tariffs on imports, was passed, the American makers were looking very strong at inland sourcing.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

It appears I may be all wet on the Sir Joseph Whitworth Fluid Compressed Steel bar stock(carottes) being converted into tubes as Whitworth formed hollow cylinders via his unique molds with hydraulic presses.


1873 diagram showing the mold & the hydraulic compression cross-section.

It is very difficult to extract data on shotgun tubes as the market was such a very, very small portion of the overall steel making process. Steel concerns were interesting in peddling steel plating for ships and big guns for hurling 100lb cylinders of lead. And barrel makers wanted contracts on millions of implements of war. So info is scarce and has to be either inferred or deduced. Seeing a rough Sir Joseph Whitworth Fluid Compressed Steel tube would be most insightful. But when one considers the fight over the U.S. of A. tariff on "shotgun barrels, forged, rought bored" I believe we can come to a consensus that indeed Whitworth & Company was supplying rough cylinders and I think this to be the only case where a steel mixer or steel process developer provided cylinders for shotgun tubes.


So it was Baldwin Bros. & Company that was leading the charge on importation of Sir Joseph Whitworth Fluid Compressed Steel tubes.


Typically, it took several passes, say 15, to bore a cylinder to the desired diameter. The cutting head was well oiled and lubricated and in some cases a stream of water was employed. Wet rags were placed on the outside for a thermo effect in an effort to prevent the loss of temper. So it is possible that Purdey's mechanics bored the cylinders and employed a La meche or square head, maybe a spill with a piece of paper or leather, being some 10 to 12 inches for the final cutting. Enlargement was accomplished by the aide of a spill, an insert of wood, paper, leather - the Etelle.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Good find, Raimey

Just spilt milk that I was able to get up. Their name was in a couple of the tube steel threads. Baldwin Brothers & Company in 1876 were at 72 Broadway, NY and oddly enough a listing 3 years earlier has an Austin Baldwin & Company at the same address and it is an agent for a boat ride across the pond. At the time there were Clyde Steamers that went from NY to Glasgow, Liverpool, Belfast & Londonderry. They were aptly named:

Alabama
Georgia
Virginia
Pennsylvania

I wonder just how may tubes rode across on the Alabama? Also I'm curious if the Whitworth certificates were kept at Baldwin Bros. & Company, 72 Broadway?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

After 1900, I believe William Ford has the correct term for the effort being performed - barrel borer:


And he was one of the best.

I found the reference I was thinking about regarding London barrel makers/forgers(pattern welded only I'm sure) and it was the Fullerd family of William & Thomas Fullerd of Clerkenwell - Middlesex. William expired in 1830 but had a son named William(1816-1874?) which I assume continued with his Uncle Thomas for time. Some give 1844 as the last of the pattern welded tube effort by the boys Fullerd/Fullard but as talented as William, Sr. was on big bore tubes, surely he passed on some expertise to William, Jr.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Dec. 11th, 1879 Note - See that Mr. Purdey was one of the folk that was interviewed.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

It would be interesting to see the Sir Joseph Whitworth Fluid compressed Steel tubes sourcing numbers from the pre-1897 merger with Armstrong & post merger. So if all Sir Joseph Whitworth Fluid Compressed Steel tubesets are chopper-lump and considering the hook to be an original integral component, then original raw cast would have the hook and the cast mold would have the female counterpart of the hook? Now you collectors of those sporting weapons from the little British Isles don't throw any stones just yet, but I've read opinions that Purdey consider Krupp steel tubes from 1897 to circa 1900. We know that Kilby used Krupp 3 Ringe Steel, so are there any know Purdey offerings with original Krupp steel tubes?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Ah, ha. So it is true:

http://www.guntrader.co.uk/Guns-For-Sale...120719120147001
Purdey #16252 - August 1898 - with Krupp steel tubes

So from 1897 to the early 1900s, Purdey for some reason, maybe cost?, opted to use Krupp steel tubes but in short order changed their mind back to Sir Joseph Whitworth Fluid Compressed Steel. I have read that Purdey considered Krupp as strong or stronger that Whitworth's.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse