March
S M T W T F S
1 2
3 4 5 6 7 8 9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17 18 19 20 21 22 23
24 25 26 27 28 29 30
31
Who's Online Now
6 members (Argo44, DaveB, graybeardtmm3, Kip, bsteele, Jeremy Pearce), 803 guests, and 3 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Statistics
Forums10
Topics38,374
Posts544,009
Members14,391
Most Online1,131
Jan 21st, 2024
Print Thread
Page 5 of 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10
ellenbr #322366 04/23/13 11:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 534
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 534
1912 Purdey:43350-43351
So the 46xxx Mode barrels would be just prior to WWI, which is quite puzzling, as his address was different (and closeby) at the time.
WC-

Last edited by WildCattle; 04/23/13 11:40 AM.
WildCattle #322367 04/23/13 11:50 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736
Likes: 181
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736
Likes: 181
Probably just before or just after WWI. After he was discharged did he have the same address? But for the moment I'm perplexed 1st by this Whitworth steel number and 2nd could both singles and doubles be found in the same serialization?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

WildCattle #322368 04/23/13 11:55 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736
Likes: 181
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736
Likes: 181
I wonder when Sir Thomas Kilby & Son, Gun Barrel Manufacturers, 11 Court, Steelhouse Lane, Birmingham pulled in their shingle?


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

WildCattle #322497 04/23/13 11:12 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736
Likes: 181
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736
Likes: 181
Looks like we need to include Henry Squuires of 3 George Yard & Wardour Street, Soho, London as well as 9 Ingestre Road, Kentish Town, as an early source of Whitworth tubes. But info suggests he went thru liquidation at least once.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

ellenbr #322505 04/24/13 12:08 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 534
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 534
Originally Posted By: ellenbr
2nd could both singles and doubles be found in the same serialization?

What do you mean by that, Raimey?
The Whitworth numbering system has always been one number per tube,and in a consecutive order. Of course, those were most often chopper lumps and if one was going to screw up one tube, one would need the proper side to replace it with.
The Purdey tube numbers are marked on each side of the forend loop. The Mode tubes are marked on the tubes themselves and with a very different font.
One is left to wonder who exactly was marking the tubes. My guess is the gun finisher.
I have a 1901 .303 Purdey double and the tube numbers are totally different (14xx) and are not in order compared to the shotgun tubes of the era. The marking is the same in font, location and size, though.
As for your first question, I have never seen this address associated with C.Mode before.
Best regards,
WC-

WildCattle #322512 04/24/13 06:47 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736
Likes: 181
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736
Likes: 181
So what if there is a tubeset with the same number on both? What is your opinion now and who kept the ledger of the serialization? Was it T. Kilby, Whitworth, then Armstrong, then Vickers?


Note the same number on both tubes, Kilby, Whitworth?


Note the same number on both tubes, Kilby, Krupp, Sauer?


Matska- He finished it but I have serious reservations that he applied the 209595 number or any similar of the above.

You mentioned recently that L. Bernard sold in tubesets, I believe, so does the same apply here as well as single? What is the difference in sourcing between a tubeset stamped with Whitworth's trademark and consecutive numbers on each tube vs. a tubeset stamped with the Whitworth(or Krupp's 3 Ringe) trademark and the same number on each tube( I have seen several of these)?


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

WildCattle #322551 04/24/13 11:09 AM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 534
Sidelock
**
OP Offline
Sidelock
**

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 534
I am afraid that I don't have a proven answer to these questions.
Here is what I think:
- Purdey marks tube numbers, one per tube on the Forend loop.
- Kilby marks tube assemblies, one # per assembly (marked on each tube)
- Bernard made and marked tube assemblies, one # per assembly.

I guess the practice depends on what was sourced outside, tubes or assembled tubes.

In the case of Purdey, I have no doubt that Purdey did the marking. The forend loop is made by Purdey, and is independent from the tubes.
The process is no different from marking Patent Use Numbers (PUNs). There had to be a ledger at the maker. The process existed.

In the case of Bernard, he was for sure providing assembled tubes, so kept track of the numbers himself.

Best regards,
WC-

WildCattle #322555 04/24/13 11:24 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736
Likes: 181
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736
Likes: 181
All right, let's say there was an APUN. So what was the cost of the royalty and who were the agents with the satellite station. On other APUNS, research reveals that the APUN was applied at a satellite station so was Purdey one such outlet? I don't think there were many outlets; no more than a 1/2 dozen or less, total.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

WildCattle #322559 04/24/13 11:51 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736
Likes: 181
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736
Likes: 181
I've thought about it a tick & about the only possibility for Purdey to apply the APUN would be under the umbrella of a tube maker being an authorized outlet of Whitworth steel tubes. Too many outlets would be difficult to track the royalties. Unless you can show me in an entry in a ledger, Purdey was no different than any other continental maker and was sourcing their tubes, so for now I find it difficult to see that Purdey was applying APUN numbers. As always, follow the money.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

WildCattle #322595 04/24/13 05:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736
Likes: 181
Sidelock
***
Offline
Sidelock
***

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736
Likes: 181
I did find a reference where Purdey & Whitworth were real chummy in the 1880s with Purdey being the 1st to opt for the Whitworth Compressed Steel. It was noted Purdey was the exclusive recipient of a large contingent of raw tubes as well as inferred that Whitworth supplied tubes in the raw state, but I don't believe that for a minute. I just don't see Whitworth forging raw tubes. But what I do see is that there was an immediate tube maker who took the Whitworth bar steel and converted it into a tube in the raw, or better, state and then delivered his wares to Purdey and others. Mr. John Robertson looks to be the connection between Whitworth & Purdey. He worked at Whitworth and then on to Purdey where he rose to the upper echelon.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Page 5 of 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 9 10

Link Copied to Clipboard

doublegunshop.com home | Welcome | Sponsors & Advertisers | DoubleGun Rack | Doublegun Book Rack

Order or request info | Other Useful Information

Updated every minute of everyday!


Copyright (c) 1993 - 2024 doublegunshop.com. All rights reserved. doublegunshop.com - Bloomfield, NY 14469. USA These materials are provided by doublegunshop.com as a service to its customers and may be used for informational purposes only. doublegunshop.com assumes no responsibility for errors or omissions in these materials. THESE MATERIALS ARE PROVIDED "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EITHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANT-ABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE, OR NON-INFRINGEMENT. doublegunshop.com further does not warrant the accuracy or completeness of the information, text, graphics, links or other items contained within these materials. doublegunshop.com shall not be liable for any special, indirect, incidental, or consequential damages, including without limitation, lost revenues or lost profits, which may result from the use of these materials. doublegunshop.com may make changes to these materials, or to the products described therein, at any time without notice. doublegunshop.com makes no commitment to update the information contained herein. This is a public un-moderated forum participate at your own risk.

Note: The posting of Copyrighted material on this forum is prohibited without prior written consent of the Copyright holder. For specifics on Copyright Law and restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum.

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5
(Release build 20201027)
Responsive Width:

PHP: 7.0.33-0+deb9u11+hw1 Page Time: 0.080s Queries: 35 (0.057s) Memory: 0.8546 MB (Peak: 1.8993 MB) Data Comp: Off Server Time: 2024-03-28 20:46:30 UTC
Valid HTML 5 and Valid CSS