doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Model 17 Remington?

Stevens 520 and 520A, and their brand names were made in 12, 16 and 20ga. I've owned many of them in all 3 gauges. Some with the solid rib too. One solid rib gun was 'Riverside' branded.
I've had Sears as well as JC Higgins plus MontgomeryWards, Ranger & Riverside marked guns in addition to the Stevens marked ones.

The stepped topped (and bottom) receiver is the earlier version.
The 520A is the straight top & bottom edge and came out later,,probably mid 30's best I can reason but it's just a guess.
The US Military resurected the 520A when they needed riot and trench guns for WW2 and put Stevens(Savage) back to work making them. I understand the model production had been actually been discontinued. The 620 was already in production.

The earlier versions use flat mainsprings. Later coil torsion springs for mainsprings (520A).
Lots of small changes inside. Not all parts are interchangeable.
If there's anything that breaks often it's the carrier spring (flat spring & two different types) and the firing pin.
The op rod gets worn and disconnects from the bolt at the beginning of the return stroke in a well used gun (hold the gun upside down and operate the action to see if it does). Can be fixed pretty easily if bubba hasn't gotten to it first

There was even a short lived version (520) with a hangfire safety for a while. You need to use the slide lock latch to open the gun even upon dry firing. Marlin hammerless pump shotguns all had one too.

The Remington M17 was also the basis for the Remington 'Whippet' shotgun.
A pistol grip short barreled no-nonsense Security & Law Enforcement defender weapon probably as a rival to the Auto-Burglar and others.
One accessory was offered for it was a belt clip attachment carrier of sorts. The trigger guard screw was replaced with a special slightly longer & extended larger headed screw.That snapped into a spring clip holder that was slipped onto the owners belt. A handy way of carrying the blaster under a long coat common for the day.
A similar 'holster' was offered for Colt SAA's way back too. I can't recall the name of it. The hammer screw on the Colt was replaced with the special lengthen & larger headed screw.

My late production M17 had one of these extended belt holster spring clip screws on it holding the trigger guard assembly in place. Probably just what ever was available for assembly at the time.

Researcher: Most of the information available online states that while John Browning was the original designer of the Model 17, John D. Pederson was involved in a re-design that improved it's function. Can you elaborate on that?

The gun was based on a John M. Browning Patent No. 1,143,170
granted June 15, 1915. However, Remington was gearing up for WW-I at that time and it would be six more years before the gun came out. Remington's designer John D. Pedersen made design refinements in 1919 (applications filed Sept. 15, 1919, Patent No. 1,429,621 granted Sept. 19, 1922 and Patent No. 1,487,799 granted Mar. 25, 1924) and G.H. Garrison made further improvements. It was the patents on these improvements that forced Ithaca to wait until 1937 to bring out their copy of this gun, though Ithaca had actually built some guns by 1932. Actually Pedersen has so many patent applications filed in that 1919 time frame it is hard to tell which really apply!

I always thought Pedersen was the designer but I had been told that it was discontinued because of "patent problems". I knew Ithaca picked it up in 1937. I'm glad to get my perspective straightened out. I did not know it was a Browning design.
The guy who wrote the article I read years ago didn't have his facts straight on the patent details.
Good information here!

Researcher: Thank you so much for that wonderful history lesson! In this one posting I've been straightened-out on Model 17s, Model 31s, Model 37s, Stevens 520s, Stevens 620s, and Remington Whippets. You folks are quite the resource!

After all of this rumination, I called the folks in Maine on that 17 today. Modified choke, 28-inch tube, and in 80% condition. I now own it. It will likely be my sons first grouse gun if his grandfather doesn't lay claim to it (it will need to be field tested, after all).

Since I've "taken the plunge" here, I did a bit of research myself and I found that our Mr. Walter C. Snyder knows quite a bit about Model 17 Remingtons and Ithaca Model 37s, and specifically, how one lead to the development of the other. The part about the Harry Howland patent and how the Model 37 was almost the Model 33 was quite interesting reading. The fact that Pederson's modification patents were also overlooked by Remington (for many years!) was another interesting tidbit. In many ways, Remington really blew-it by allowing Ithaca (in 1932) to pirate their then-discarded Model 17 design. Before the Model 37, Ithaca didn't have any marketable pumpgun designs and their market share was in sharp decline (doubleguns were being replaced by repeaters in the mass-market). With the Model 37, they came roaring back and fully capitalized on the well-tested Browning/Pederson design, now made by them in 12 and 16 gauge as well. The rest, as they say, is history. How many millions of Model 37s have been made? Aren't they still in production somewhere?

In Upper Sandusky, Ohio. Great people to do business with, by the way. They will build you a 20 or a 28 gauge model 37, also.

Best,
Ted

So... John Moses Browning's design lives on in yet another incarnation, and in 28-gauge this time. Pretty amazing when you think about it. From what I've read, the original design work for the Model 17 was done in 1915. We're now approaching 100 years and over 5-million copies produced to-date (the longest continuously produced pumpgun design). I know this isn't a subject matter normally associated with the fine gun world, but it's quite a tribute to the man's genius. I have heard it argued that his weapon designs (1911, BAR,.50 BMG, 40mm, etc.) altered the course of the Second World War and seriously affected the outcome of many others since. Who am I to argue?

Yep, he literally wrote the book on it. Everyone who treasures the M37 should have his book. Gil

I have 2, one a 17E that's on the restoration pile and a two barrel gun, both barrels numbered to the gun. Never had a problem, lovely, lightweight guns.

I always assumed that the 1917 was patented in 1917 and the patent expired 20 years later which is when the Ithaca M37 appeared...