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Forums10
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Most Online1,131 Jan 21st, 2024
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 188
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 188 |
Bill,
I am one of the engravers mentioned who frequents this site. Until the recent past, few German engravers signed their work unless it was being done for export and a signature was requested. The German gunmakers and dealers only wanted their own name on the gun and the engravers were considered just another tradesman. There are still gunmakers in Germany and Austria who do not want the engraver to sign the work.
The pictures of your gun aren't the best for identification but from what I can see the engraving is very well done and of a high order, especially the relief sculpted gamescene (jagdszenen). The scrollwork is known here commonly as "German scroll" but is called "druck Englisch" by Suhl trained engravers.
When it comes to the identification of German engravers by looking at the work, it is very difficult because in the pre-WWII period the apprenticeship and training was so strict and ridgid that, to a large degree, the work of one master looked like that of another. Also most figures and scenes were done from well established traditional patterns.
The only person that I know who can identify the work of various German engravers is Hendrik Frühauf who lives in Breitenbach, Germany. Not only is Hendrik one of the finest engravers in Europe, he has exceptional knowledge and records of deceased German engravers. Hendrik does occasionally visit the GGCA web forum but I don't think he visits this one.
My advice is to take the best focused and detailed pictures of all engraved parts of the gun and e-mail them to Hendrik at this address: hf@gebrueder-fruehauf.de and let us know what you learn.
Regards, Roger
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736 Likes: 181
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736 Likes: 181 |
Bill, I'll take you up on the breaking of bread at some point as I'd like to see the longarm in hand. Let me see if I can get Hendrik Fruehauf's attention with an email. But to my untrained eye it somewhat resembles Richard Werner who was born in Berlin in 1863 and expired in Suhl in 1940. So then I would look at just who he might have trained, which would be August Heym, August Röll and his son Paul Werner. For 1950, I still would think that the effort was sourced from some of the old talent; therefore, I would not rule out Emil Völker or his student Emil Willig. Emil Völker exhibited much of his talent on the wares of Franz Jäger. Not sure when exactly either retired but Emil had a son Claus Willig who was born in 1939, so I'm not sure he had perfected his talent by 1950. At one time he gave his email in Schweinfurt as Claus.Willig@t-online.de I would say that more than like a brute force correlation effort may be the only choice for ID: http://waffenmuseumsuhl.de/index.php?opt...6&Itemid=32Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 74
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 74 |
Rodger and Raimey, I have some professional quality prints of the gun that I would be more than happy to send to Mr. Fruehaul should he be willing to look at them. I would need a address though. Also, My intro letter/request would be in english if that does not cause a problem. I can not thank you both and everyone here who has responded enough for your help. Sincerely, Bill
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 74
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 74 |
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,445 Likes: 201
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,445 Likes: 201 |
Bill, Roger is,as he said, one of the engravers I mentiomed at page 2,and his friend is the other. I believe Claus Willig is still living, I regret never having met him, in spite of visiting Recknagel in Schwienfurt many times.I believe, however,your search should be concentrated in and around Berlin.Also I believe that if the engraver is identified, it will be by the figures.Like Roger said, the training led to many similarities,but the differences in artistic talent shows up clearly in the figures. Mike
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736 Likes: 181
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,736 Likes: 181 |
Ford, oh the missed opportunities. Did you also pass on high tea with the Queen of England? I would like to think that there are some initials on the reverse side of the sideplates. Also, Jim Kelley just might recognize the tap, tap, tap as he might have been in the vicinity during the time of proofing. Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 74
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 74 |
Hello William,
thanks for your message. This is a<really nice shotgun. The engraving an d the stock carving its really good. The stock carving is one of the best , what I ever see. Sorry I don’t the name of the engravers, but I know hes work. I think its not a engraver from Suhl, hes was from Zella -Mehlis- a another city with gun historyin the near from Suhl. The Zella-Mehlis engravers has own style. But we cant find information about this . In the time from the communists we lost a lot of informations….
Sorry that I cant help you.
Greetings from Germany hendrikFrühauf
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 188
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 188 |
Bill,
Here is Hendrik's address: Kiesweg 13 • Breitenbach D-98553 St. Kilian I would send him an e-mail first explaining your questions. You can write to him in English.
As to Claus Willig, he is still living and doing superb work. I spoke with him last at the IWA show in Nuremberg in 2011 but I got a Christmas greeting from him last December.
Roger
I must have been writing at the same time as Bill was posting above.
Last edited by C. Roger Bleile; 03/25/13 07:17 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 74
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 74 |
Thanks for getting that address for me Rodger. I was afraid I would run into the "lost information" problem. It's not the first time that has happened. I'm not really sure where I'll try next, but I plan to continue the search. Maybe a trip to Germany. Thanks again
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Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,445 Likes: 201
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 4,445 Likes: 201 |
Roger, Do you happen to know if Rolf Peter is still living/working? He often came to Walter Grass's shop and his work,especially figures,was beyond reproach. Mike
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