doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Help identify a Charles Daly Damascus10 gauge.

I have a Charles Daly Damascus 10 gauge sxs with few markings and would like some help finding information about it. I'll take some pictures of the full gun soon but here are a few to look at.

Looks to be a Saur built between 1880-1890 as what ever called their Field grade. The date guess is based upon the lack of proof marks and country of origion stamps. The forend iron shows what could be a "Lindner bump" but I doubt it because of the lack of adornment. Might want to remove the forend and check the bottom of the barrels for two crossed pistols which would indicate manufacture by Lindner but I wouln't hold out much hope. The condition appears to be well worn but have it checked out by an expert. May well be the best duck gun you will ever have shot (with appropriate ammunition).

Looks like example Nr. 19 for H.A. Lindner under the 1st A&D patent/APUN number. Check the standing breech between the strikers for a APUN number:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post272601

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=291715&page=2

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The stamp on the breech face is Anson & Deeley 124 Brevete. The number 320, which can be seen in the 2cd picture, and the letters EW are stamped on the barrel under the forend. Here is one more picture I found with the serial(?) number.

Most interesting APUN #124. I would say that there are many who would like to know where the A&D APUN list might be as well as where the satellite stamping station was. I for one think it was in Liege & that it was centered around August Francotte even though the following August Lebeau is one of the few Belgian offerings I have run across that has the inverted stamp.


APUN #409/4091




August Lebeau 429

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The following U.S. of A. patent Nr. 172943 for William Anson & John Deeley allows for the protection of the design of Daly #19:

http://www.google.com/patents/US172943?p...876&f=false

While other Dalys with the overhanging scears is covered by U.S. of A. Patent Nr. 305264 on September 16th, 1884(Nr. 4089, August 26th, 1882 in Great Britian) being held by William Anson solely but referred to as the Anson & Deeley Safety Bolt:

http://www.google.com/patents/US305264?p...882&f=false

It is possibly that Daly Nr. 19 was made between 1876 & 1884.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Here's a Lindner-Daly 10 bore that's not to terribly far ahead in the APUN nr.(686) but with serial Nr. 3031:

http://www.liveauctionworld.com/Diamond-Quality-Charles-Daly-10ga-Dbl-Bbl_i13171139
Nice stock, huh?






More than likely Emil Eckoldt is the culprit for the subcontractor


APUN - 686

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Thanks for posting the pictures. These early Prussian Daly hammerless guns are interesting, and the there is still quite a bit unknown about all their details. I have a hunch about the early hammerless Dalys that do not exhibit the Heinrich Lindner marks, but it is speculation so I hesitate to say much on these.

As Raimey points out, the APUNs are a interesting clue in putting the Daly timeline together. I own Charles Daly hammerless serial #7 ("Lucky #7") and its APUN is 65. With 11 serial numbers between Dalys #7 and #19, it is obvious, looking at the 59 number APUN delta between these two, that other makers besides the maker of these guns were taking advantage of the new and excellent A&D design - as you would expect.

FWIW, my estimate of your gun's manufacture date (late 1870s) is at the earlier end of the date range Raimey provided based on the patents and other Dalys noted in this range.

Ken

Ken:
Were all stamped with an APUN and where to you think the satellite stamping station might have been?

Kind Regards

Raimey
rse

Ken:
Do you think these makers to be solely Belgian, or a mix of Belgian, French & H.A. Lindner. I'm pretty confident that the A&D breechloader design protection was sought in France, but I am not sure about Belgium and I do not think it was filed in Germany.

Maybe they filed in the Countries where there would be the most competition and where international law might apply. Have no idea on the international law for the period.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse