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Forums10
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Apr 27th, 2024
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 927 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 927 Likes: 3 |
The last Prussian Daly I have recorded was made in 1933. So the demise of the Prussian Daly and this gun's production date is an interesting coincidence But the serial number and mechanicals of this gun are very different than that gun. This gun is like no other Prussian Daly I have seen. Again, at a minimum, I would have expected to see the Daly name engraved on the sides of the action. Heck, they didn't even spell out "Charles Daly" or "Regent Diamond Quality" on the rib - just "Regent Daly". To top it off the, the "Regent Daly" inscription doesn't fit into the space allocated. There have been other Daly regent diamond fakes noted which is why I am skeptical of this gun.
But again, who knows what the company owners were willing to slap the Daly name onto during the final months of the company. Desperate times call for desperate measures.
Ken
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
Ken:
I also concur that the name scribing is a bit primitive but with the images it is quite difficult to read and the price is a little on the high side for a purchase for close inspection. And, I'm not positive if the date is 1932, 1933, some year? So yes, the addition of the Daly name could be spurious. It appears to be an export sporting weapon but the mechanics did go the extra effort to have it experience the Nitro proof. Not sure how many post WWI Dalys wear the Nitro proof stamp. In 1933 I don't think that the Charles Daly name & S,D&G were one in the same or owned by the same concern, so what outfitter would have been peddling it? The components resemble some of the wares of upper rung Waffenhändlers that look to have sourced a Belgian gesteck and had it completed in Suhl or Zella-Mehlis. How heavy was the sourcing of the Belgians by the Charles Daly owner at this time?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
A Russian collector friend obtain permission of use on these Ernst Steigleder Berlin Lindner sourced Diamant Orlow double with an additional set of rifled tubes by Louis Kelber some time later. Some may object, by in my opinion this paring of Lindner-R.S. - Robert Schlegelmilch and Louis Kelber tubesets is about as good as it gets unless there's a 3rd set by Jean Falla.       2 grams of powder over 27 grams of lead shot  Schilling forge marks along with H.A. Lindner's control stamps  Initials L.K. on a rifled tubeset and note the serial number. For some reason unknown for now Ernst Steigleder changed to serial number 111,000 circa 1904/1905. Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
 Interesting to see that Wittener Stahlröhren-Werke was founded in 1896 by absorbing or as a reorganization of Röhrenfabrik von Alvermann, Cordes & Trottmann. The owner was von Khaynach of Stüting. Telegraph address was Röhrenwerk, Witten. In 1905 it mergered with the Röhrenwalzwerke in Gelsenkirchen. An expansion in 1911 lead to a satellite facility in Glasgow that was supposed to be online in 1914 followed by a merger with the Mannesmannröhren-Werke, which commenced in 1917 to fully absorb the concern and the deal was finalized in 1918. Info is spotty after WWI under the Mannesmann umbrella. Ken: What is the earliest Charles Daly/H.A. Lindner example wearing Wittener Excelsior steel? For now I would guess the trademark was filed between 1896 & 1901 but much closer to 1896. Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
Mannesmann AG
"This firm was created in 1908 to act as a holding company for the various metallurgical interests of the Mannesman family and the patents it held relating to the production of seamless steel and steel-alloy tubes. In the years before the Great War it grew to be a major integrated steel production and trading concern, with subsidiary companies operating in Great Britain, Russia, Italy and Bohemia, most of which were confiscated by the victorious allies following the conclusion of hostilities.
Nevertheless the firm was able to rebuild and expand in the postwar era, with its increasing demand for seamless tubes for marine, aviation and industrial uses. The firm also diversified its interests backward into basic steel production and forward into mechanical engineering, both through founding of new facilities and through the acquisition of existing firms. In 1924 it acquired Monheimer Ketten und Metallwaren Industrie and in 1926 the machine works of the Gebruder Meer, while in 1929 it opened a new integrated steel works at Duisburg.
In 1932 it acquired the Düsseldorfer Röhren und Eisenwalzwerke from the Vereinigte Stahlwerke and integrated its activities with the rest of the Mannesman enterprise. In 1934 it took a quarter-share interest in the Magdeburg machine works of Richard Wolf, and in 1936 obtained a one-third share interest in the Treuenbrietzen metal fabrication firm in exchange for a large loan for that firm’s expansion. The Stahlwerke Harkort-Eicken was merged into the firm in 1938."
Closed June 30th, 1972.
Some info I stumbled across. For those Italian aficionados note that Mannesman-Witten had a facility in Italy.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
May be after a Red Herring here. Difficult to track Gußstahlwerke Witten as another concern either had or was using the term Excelsior. But Gußstahlwerke Witten was active in 1937 to 1941 and seems they had or were developing a Edelstahl or stainless steel.  Ruhrstahl - Witten   Ruhrstahl - Stahlguss Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
Looking at OWD's recent post I noticed the following Charles Daly Gun-H.A. Lindner and I wondered how many had the side frame reinforcement?    Daly #3615 Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 927 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 927 Likes: 3 |
I noticed the same gun in the recent Little John auction. This is the first Lindner Daly I have seen with this style of action reinforcement. It is interesting, but I can't say I care for the aesthetic.
The first Daly I have noted with Wittener steel barrels is Serial #1130 which puts it circa 1901. Please note though that many of the entries in the database do not list the barrel composition. Witten barrels could show up several hundred guns earlier. This is just the first one I noted with this serial number. Krupp steel is found as early as Daly #705, circa 1896/7.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
Ken, if originally it had a additional set of rifled tubes you might look at it in a different light? The current owner has found me so I hope to receive new info and new images.
Might have been a pigeon gun with the straight-hand stock?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185 |
 Curious as to the repair and if it left Germany or was sent back?  JW initials   For you Drew. Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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