doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Chapuis and caliber decision????

I want opinions before I order.
Looking at a Chapuis double rifle,. I would prefer to roder the series 3, the smaller 28 ga frame size. 6lbs or so weight without optic. I could go with the UGEX (20 ga Frame) and that�s a pound heavier.
Rifle to be used primarily for eastern White tails, black bear and the occasional moose.
I will go with a Leupold scope in EAW pivot mounts with illuminated reticle for deep woods and early morning and late day use. 54 year old eyes need a little help.
Add a pound or so for glass and rings.
So, this leaves caliber.
My choices are 6.5x57R, 7x65R, 30-30, 8x57JR, 9.3x74R
If I go to the heaver UGEX, I can add 30-06 and 30R Blazer. Of course 30-06 would give me the most choices in factory ammo.
I have experience with the 9.3x74R. But in a rifle of this weight, a little too much recoil.
I have no experience with the other metrics, only what I have read.
Ammo availability is one factor besides performance.
I plan on using mostly factory ammo. What factory 8x57R and the others is available readily in US? I am not talking 80 bucks a box RWS.

None of this is written in stone right now.

I'd go with the 8x57 for your game targets.

I'd lean 7x65r myself.....but whatever pleases you.

Factory ammo "choices" won't mean anything in a double!
It's regulated to 1 factory load. If you don't reload then thta's what you'll use to best effect.

My UGEX is very light and works quite well with the 9.3X74. If you don't want to pack around that extra pnd get the light one with a smaller round. All mentioned will work good on deer.

Both excellent choices. I'm generaly in favour of 8x57 IRS, but if your hunting includes long shots over cornfield and such, 7x65R might be a better option. That said, my favourite would likely be a cartridge you did not mention: 7x57R.

With kind regards,
Jani

I agree with Jani, but my favorite bullet (H mantle)is hard to find in US. Second choice-8x57IRS.Third-9.3x74R.
Mike

Brian:

I'm sure to be the outlier here, but I'd go with the .30-30. I've looked at it a bunch and am still thinking about pulling the trigger on one. I'm sure that you could kill a moose with a well-constructed 165 grain .30 caliber bullet, even at 2200 fps and you could handload spitzers for the DR.

Besides, I want someone to buy one and report on it so I can make up my mind about buying one.

Rem

Rem,
I had the same idea 30+ years ago. Would still make sense in a very light double.

With kind regards,
Jani

all cals listed are capable for bear and deer,however for moose i my want to consider 8mm/57irs as moose will more likely be in a brushy environment and you would have better choices as to store bought ammo. Pilgrim

A little late, but I just saw this topic. I'm considering a Chapuis combo Rx 3 Progress (?) myself. I read somewhere that the barrels can be regulated by the owner. That to me is grand. That said, I would opt for the .30-30. Can load w/a heavy partition, and would be fine for moose. Actually, don't even need anything fancy bullet-wise. Just a well-constructed bullet.The 30-30 will do the jobe fine. Has for a long time.

Any premium bullet will work great for moose. I use the el cheapo Privis because they work so well.
I didn't know that Chapuis was doing this. Is this on a SXS or one of those O/U's?

Ammo availability is a real issue if you do not want to reload.

There was a time when 30.30 accounted for more Deer, Black Bear, and other game than every other cartridge on the market then and now. It is still used widely by many hunters.

Bottomline is 30.30 is cheapest and best available.

While 30.30 will work, unfortunately it is not the best perfroming ammo for the range of uses you have posited. I would go with 8x57JR because of both general availability and versatility.

The 8x57JRS is a good choice, particularly with moose as a possibility.

There is currently plenty of Sellier & Bellot 196 gr ammunition available at about $25 per box of 20. Midway, for example has it in stock. The Cabela's that I visited yesterday had 10 to 20 boxes, or more.

I have not shot the Sellier & Bellot 8x57JRS yet, but will. It chambers well, and looks well made. Online reviews are positive.

I had one more thought. Depending on the rifle and how it is regulated you may discover that it may not properly shoot off the shelf ammo. You may end up needing to load for it regardless of the cartridge.

Note in both 30.30 and 8x57JRS you will have no problem selling it compared to those of us with oddball one of a kind double rifles.

old colonel,
One person's "odd ball" is the next person's "normal".
Mike

I have less than 10% of my rifles that you might walk into a well stocked gun store and buy ammo for them. Even less with DR's. At least you can use 45-70 for your basic brass.

Enjoy it don't gripe.

Were it not for the "odd balls" there is a few rifles I have that I otherwise couldn't afford. Besides, anyone can buy ammo over the counter...what fun is there in that?...hehe

Seriously, I do understand the convenience of "over the counter ammo" for those who aren't as curious as others of us are about the oddball cartridges.

Der Ami and AkMike1, I accept your corrections. I agree that what many consider unusual is common for those of us who are into old guns and DRs in particular and therefore not odd in our world. I meant no offence

That said, if one is not into reloading and is new to this hobby staying with a more common and therefore more saleable caliber is a good course before one is fully submerged and baptised into our passion.

My read of the original poster is that he is seeking a starting point and not looking to drink the Kool Aid that I have drunk quarts of, with many gallons in my future.

And sharps4590 you are right I would not have the DR I own if it had been in a more saleable caliber, and in fact because it is an uncommon caliber it has lead me down a path of exploration and learning I never planned and I am enjoying (at least so far)

Old colonel,
I understand, no offence taken.The more modern and saleable calibers like 308, 30-06,243, etc.(30-30 excepted)are a mistake in a double rifle.
Mike

Why do you say 308, 30-06,243 are a mistake, is that they are often higher pressure than what a double rifle type action can take?

Pressure is always something to keep a eye on with break open guns as they are not as strong as bolt rifles. Some doubles will hold it and some will come off face quickly.
But regardless of pressure you really want a rimmed/flanged case for ejection/extraction.
Compare the systems on two guns made by the same mfg, one rimless and one rimmed. The rimless version with the spring loaded tab looks fragile and only grabs a tiny piece of the case. Sooner or latter it will fail to function correctly.

old colonel,
I think they are a mistake mostly because they have no rim. I am one of those old farts that beliaves a tipup rifle of any barrel configuration "belongs" to be chambered for a rimed cartridge;also other single shots, but not quite so strict for #1&3s.Pressures are also a factor, especially in 308 and 243. My friend Walter Grass reported that in his o/u double rifles, 30-06 was the third most requested caliber( in 1970s),but still prefered a rimmed cartridge( 9.3x74 was first, 7X65R second). If a customer demanded it, he would build a combo gun in 243, but said they always caused problems.If they wanted a 308, he talked them into 30-06.They can take the pressures, but shoot loose quicker, and give more problems with extraction.
Mike

Merkel and Blaser make quite a few tip-up single-shot rifles in rimless, relatively high pressure cartridges, up to and including 7 mm Magnums. Anyone have one shoot loose in normal use?

Thank you for the answer I appreciate the opinion and understand the issue. As a more often than not 16/65mm guy I appreciate both the challenges of ammo and the pleasure of shooting something more unique.

Further the rimmed vs. belted rounds are an advantage. On pressure, I have little doubt it is correct that some of the modern cartridges are higher pressure but still within the range of the weapon's capability, though potentially greater wear producing.

I must admit I am predisposed to traditional calibers, however I also am predisposed to not buying anything more for two years while I play with what I already have and prepare to move to a new house, so everything is speculation on my part.

They do make them for these cartridges, but because of demand from customers that want to buy ammo at the Wal-Mart.There is nothing wrong with these calibers, nor with Wal-Mart ammo.It's just that they were intended for bolt guns.
Mike

I concur

Finally decided on The Chapuis Series 3 in 7x57R. Regulated with 156 Gr Norma with Leupold 2x7 VX-R Scope. Should do nicely for everything I will most likley hunt.
Thanks for the input and opinions. It was close with the 8x57JRS but since I wont go back to reloading for at least 5 years, I want readily avilable factroy loads with good bullets and Norma fits the bill.

Sounds like an excellent choice. One concern, however.

For a year or so, Norma ammunition, at least in rimmed cartridges, has been difficult or impossible to find in the US, except for scattered left-over stock. It may have been due to a change in the US Norma importer. Norma 9.3x74R in 286 gr was almost unavailable and in 232 gr was not available at all. Both are now available so that situation, at least, is OK again.

The Norma USA web site lists very few metrics under Products. Only 6.5x55, 9.3x62, and 9.3x74R. It does not list 7x57R. The Norma European web sites list all the usual metrics as available, but that does not mean that they are imported into the US. The Norma Ballistic Calculator may also list metrics that are not available in the US.

It would be worth checking into ammunition availability further before moving forward.

I know it isnt available on the American market form Norma. But I see Norma 7x57R for sale at gunshows with enough regularity to be able to buy a box here and there until I have a sufficient reserve. Privi partisan and S&B are both also available. S&B has a poor reputation for performance with the expansion of its bullets on game. The Privi seems to have good reviews on bullet performance. I have my reloading gear all socked away for years. will evenutally get back into that. so factroy for hunting will be taken care of by the Norma I buy at shows.
Brass, bulltes and dies are easy to come by and several BBS members have offered me reloading data that they use for thier 7x57R's as a starting point.

You'll be happy with the 7x65r. I've used one in a drilling for the past 4-5 years as my primary hunting gun and it performs wonderfully. I reload with a 156gr. Hornady and its proved effective on axis deer and red stag.