doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Shooting nitro loads in BP proof Damascus?

Me thinks you fellows from across the pond have been brain washed when it comes to " proof ". Why would anyone think a gun needs reproofing if a fellow is going to shoot a nitro load of 5000 to 7000psi ? That is at or under a BP load. The gun doesn't know what kind of powder you're useing - only how much pressure it's subjected to. You see, over here our guns aren't " proof tested " for BP or nitro. The only test done were at the factory when they were built. Most Americans think damascus barrels are unsafe [ unlike you ] and won't shoot them. The only ones who will are people like on this forum and they all know what kind of shells to shoot in them - low pressure, because we don't have a proof house to send them to. I believe it's been said that if a gun blows up in the chamber it was from to high a pressure - if in the barrel it was from an obstruction. Even if the gun in the picture was proof tested it wouldn't have helped - someone got a real hot reload in it. JMHO

Stan, good point about static electricity - I'll ground my presses in the future and use one of those "static cling" thinges in the powder bottle just to be sure.

Well, one issue is insurance. I doubt insurance cover would be valid if a nitro cartridge was used in a gun without suitable proof.

I also believe it is more complex than peak pressure, and that rate of pressure rise can also be important.

I know that many BP proved guns will pass (and have passed) nitro, so they are sufficiently strong for the forces. But until that test is done, the risk (both of accident and lack of insurance cover) remains.

Bladesmith, we have had this conversation before. I think an enterprising chap with funds at his disposal could buy the necessary equipment and set up a voluntary USA proof house and for a fee of about $30 per gun would make a fortune and make guns like the ones we are discussing "in proof". I have an inkling though that lots of you chaps wouldn�t want to put your BP proofed fine old guns through nitro proof which I understand. If the barrels are good use them with black but John above is exactly right on the insurance front...in the UK or Europe if you fired a nitro cartridge though a non nitro proofed shotgun and injured yourself, well, that�s your bad luck. If you injure someone else you are certainly sued for an enormous amount (we learnt that from you chaps ) and would also go to prison

...and it wouldn't prove a thing.

I don't know why we go on like this except for responsibility to answer questions from less experienced members about the safety of using shells of a particular length in particular guns.

My guess is 99 per cent of members use/used shells of longer length in chambers, know the characteristics of nitro and blackpowder, and do not know a person who lost fingers or worse.

This isn't to down-rate caution and safe practises. Surely the board can provide a canned, short answer so the less experienced aren't burdened by well-intentioned information they don't need.

I don�t follow you Joe ?, best

I believe that Putting a vintage Damascus barrel though heavy proof puts unnecessary stress on it and only proves it held that time.

Truth is if you shoot vintage Damascus barreled guns you take your chances.....kinda like Russian roulette.

I will be shooting low pressure 2 1/4" 7/8oz loads with Green Dot powder in my English damascus barrelled guns, thank you.
I do not want my barrels subjected to the extreme strain of Proof House loads.
Was there not a big fuss recently about over-strength British proof loads destroying brand new Purdey barrels, Lagopus I think you reported on that? Who would compensate me if my irreplaceable 1870 barrels were ruined?
As an aside, a gunsmith here gave me a real cheap 1880s Belgian 12 double ga hammer gun, marked with a mythical English maker's name.
I wanted to burst the barrel as a demo for the 12-20 ga dilemma for Hunter Ed classes.
Five times I loaded a 20 ga shell in front of a 12 ga shell and fired it, all I got was a slight bulge ahead of the chamber.
With an accidentally 12/20 scenario, modern Brazilian single shot hammer gun, chamber split open and severely injured the arm of the shooter. Just my 2c anyway, I'm not asking you to shoot my Damascus guns and here in Canada I do not see how it could be an insurance issue.
Mike from Colchester

Mike, what's your recipe for the green dot load? I've been using 7625 and it's gotten way too expensive. Justin