doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com GDR Merkel SXS Information wanted

I have an older post-war model (made in GDR) MERKEL 12 gauge SXS. I'd like to get some more information on this gun. The shotgun looks very much like my postwar (made in West Germany) Sauer Model VIII...not quite as nice, but close. The gun has the same features as the Sauer such as cocking pin indicators, side clips, same locking systems. The engraving is not as nice as the Sauer, but is fairly extensive. The wood is relatively plain walnut, with some figure in the forend. This Merkel is in overall excellent used condition, with everything still tight and no cracks in the wood. It has perfect bores. Does anyone have any information on these GDR early model Merkels? I'd appreciate any information. From what I see on the internet, I guess its a Model 8.


I'll post a few photos..

Post images of the marks as well as the tube steel type and that may garner you additional info.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Here are a few additional shots of the markings. Barrel steel is: SPECIAL-GEWEHRLAUFSTAHL

This is a generic East German SXS built in March, 1975. (375 on the barrel flat.) This gun has 70mm (2-3/4") chambers and I'll bet full chokes. What I mean by generic is that Merkels, JP Sauers and Simsons were all made at the same plant by the same workers. It is a common joke among importers of these guns that Merkels went out the front door, Sauers out the side door and Simsons out the back door of the plant. The action is what I refer to as the Merkel style reinforced frame with scalloped back. All brands were made on the same frame. The only differences among the three brands were stock and checkering style and the location of the sling swivels on the barrels. The actions were marked slightly different and the barrels were marked for brand. I have one of these with a left hand cheekpiece.

Thank you very much for the information. However, what I don't quite understand is your description of the relationship of the Merkel to the J.P. Sauer shotguns made after the war. My JP Sauer model VIII that this Merkel bears some general family resemblance to, is a much higher grade gun, with great wood, careful fitting, and extensive high quality engraving (according to my books, it is factory engraving pattern style 06 ). In general, every part of the gun is made to much higher specs than is the Merkel. So it can't be just a matter of it being the same gun with a different name stamped on it. My Sauer was made in 1953 in northern West Germany at Eckernf�rde (and is marked as such), where I understand JP Sauer set up shop after the war...Was there also a JP Sauer branded shotgun being sold out of the pre-war plant at Suhl in East Germany after WWII? This is what you seem to be saying. Can you clear this up for me?

I know exactly what my Sauer sells for in my part of the world but I have no idea about the Merkel. Given that you can't actually handle the gun, in very general terms what do you think these Merkels are worth?

A couple of pictures of my Sauer Model VIII

Was there ...a JP Sauer branded shotgun being sold out of the pre-war plant at Suhl in East Germany after WWII?

Robinpeck
Yes,they operated under the Russians for a while,right after the war as JP SAUER.When they went to West Germany in the 50s,it was really just the "name".The plant,parts,etc.stayed in Suhl.The plant kept making guns,but under other names.I think the ones marked Fortuna were made there.The West German SAUERs were a different model altogether and not like the older SAUERs.The new SAUERs were still fine guns on their own.
Mike

Re: "The West German SAUERs were a different model altogether and not like the older SAUERs"

Thanks, this helps ....but muddies the water at the same time. If the West German Sauer is "a different model altogether" then why is it nearly identical to the East German Merkel? The West German Sauer Model VIII that I have is a virtual twin of the East German Merkel, except of course, that it is much better made, better wood, much better fit and finish overall...but the basic architecture of the gun is identical. Something is missing in this history as outlined in the postings above..I guess I'll need to actually see an East German Sauer (or Fortuna?) to notice the differences....also...are these Merkels worth anything and is there a model number for this gun?

robinpeck,
That they are different models altogether is what SAUER,Eckernfoerde told me when I wrote them in early 70s asking them to replace the forearm on a prewar combination gun and make a new set of barrels.That the Fortuna was made in the Sauer factory is a rumor in the ROD and Gun Club.The manager was usually right,but I can't prove it.You can't go only by looks,take one of each apart and check/measure all the parts.
Mike

As I recall the story, the Sauer family slipped out of East Germany when it became apparent to them the best they, as factory owners and therefore class enemies, could hope for under the DDR regime would be to keep their hides. When they left for the West, the drawings and technical data remained behind.

So, as goes the story I've heard, they got an exemplar of the Sauer production and went to work measuring off it and reconstructing the design and process from memory, then undertaking to put this gun into production. So, the West German Sauer design is close, but not exactly the same, as the East German. Some of the parts should fit - last year I had to replace a broken hammer spring in my 1979 Simson, and Merkel USA was able to supply one that needed minor fitting at most by my gunsmith to fit and work. To compete in the Western market - against the entire Free World, so to speak - the Western guns' fit, finish and workmanship had to be superior to the East's. In the East, once you hit your quota you were good - insisting on excellence and nice quality beyond meeting quota had sort of a capitalist aroma about them and didn't go far. We didn't see too many East guns because they were subject to a punitive tariff.

As I further recall it, the deal that really made the new Western Sauer company viable was Mr. Weatherby getting them to make his then-new rifles for the American market.

And, yes, these Merkels are worth something. Not as much as a post-reunification Merkel, but they are good solid guns. Governed by communists or not, the workers in Suhl were still Germans.