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Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 601 Likes: 39
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 601 Likes: 39 |
Homeless. Yes & go to page 3 on the WR Leeson site & look at the schematic. Notice any difference? Maybe both types are "Webley Screw Grips"? I don't know & that is what I'm trying to clarify.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Webley & Scott made actions and parts for most all English gun makers...was Brown any different than say Holland and Holland ?
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Joined: Jan 2010
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6 |
The following is excerpted from Doug Tate's history of the firm that is posted on AA Brown's website, which I think gets at HojO's question: During the austere period immediately after the war, when the steel tubes used to make shotgun barrels were unavailable, the Browns once again developed a strategy for survival. . . . .
The firm's record books for the 1950s and '60s are replete with guns made by A. A. Brown & Sons for other makers. A recent visitor was shown entries for Holland & Holland, John Harper, and even Alex Martin "ribless" guns. Robin Brown explained that the Browns had made "many of the ribless guns for Alex Martin" and many of the XXVs sold by E. J. Churchill. . . . . Robin Brown explained how the Churchill firm would order guns of identical specifications from different makers Baker, Wrights or Brown that were engraved and finished except that the stock, though inletted and attached, remained in a rough and unfinished state. When a pair of guns was needed, Robert Churchill would select two likely candidates from the rack and have a stacker set about carving the wood to fit the customer. Robin's father, Sidney, said it was "pure hell" for the woodworker, but it meant finished guns could be ready in four or five weeks. On 9 January 1931, the Prince of Wales ordered a pair of Churchill "Premier" XXVs, and the guns were miraculously delivered five days later. Robin and Sidney Brown's explanation of how Churchill guns were made would account for the short delivery time.
Throughout the postwar period the Browns continued to build guns for the trade. Perhaps because they were industrious at a time when much of Britain wanted to rest after the exhausting task of defeating Hitler's Germany or perhaps because they had a mature highly skilled workforce dedicated to building the finest guns available they flourished where others had failed. When Joseph Asbury, which machined many of the actions for the trade went under, A. A. Brown acquired its machinery, giving Brown the capacity to machine its own actions from the raw forging. They also acquired the business and name of A. E. Bayliss & Co., a Birmingham Trade manufacturer who was pleased to pass his business over on his retirement. . . .
In the early 1960s, much of the gun quarter was redeveloped to make way for Birmingham's inner-ring road. It was a time of turmoil for the trade: Shooting was unfashionable, and apprentices were hard to find. Many well-known names R. B. Rodda & Co., Bentley & Playfair, and Clabrough & Johnstone disappeared rather than face the challenges of finding new premises, markets, and a work force. A. A. Brown's Sand Street premises became a multilevel parking structure, but the company found a new home within the Westley Richards firm out at Bournebrook. Westley Richards continued to build most of its own Anson and Deeley designed guns, particularly the hand-detachable lock model known to American collectors as the "droplock." However, for approximately fourteen years A. A. Brown built the Westley Richards best sidelock ejector gun together with a number of Connaught boxlocks using Brown's own thick walled replaceable hinge pin action which allowed for sleek rounded styling.
Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there.
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,530 Likes: 82
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,530 Likes: 82 |
Webley made actions with both dolls or club head extensions as well as with straight extensions . With later guns such as the 700 they still used the screw as a base for their lever work but abandoned the barrel extension ,effectively making the "grip nut" obsolete . They continued using this as to abandon it altogether would have meant a total redesign of their lever work and at the time the cost of retooling to do so was considered to great. All things considered it was one of the strongest lever systems built as is testimony of the many hundreds of double rifles they built ,mostly bearing the names of other makers .
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6 |
Lovel just confirmed that this gun does in fact have a Webley Screw Grip Action.
Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 312 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 312 Likes: 15 |
hello, if lovell are correct i offer my apologies to homelessjOe for questioning his belief re screw grip on this gun.i am always pleased to learn and would be grateful for a clear explanation from jOe(as i previously requested) as to his method of identification. cheers
mrwmartin
NA
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6 |
The proof of the pudding is in the eating, as you might say - when I have the gun, I will post a picture of the slot in the standing breach to confirm Lovel's statement. This is largely beyond my ken, but I did notice that the top surface of the locking part of the extension is not flat but is angled up left to right. If the fastener cams, wouldn't it be better to have the bearing surface angled slightly up to increase the downward pressure as the cam moves across the extension? Or would an angled bearing surface be used regardless of the type of fastener used to hold the extension down?
Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 742
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 742 |
Mr. Martin is not the only one who owes an apology, but he has certainly been the most cordial.
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 610
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 610 |
Mr. Marin, please refer to page five and the link to the wr leech site. It's a pretty good explanation
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 312 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 312 Likes: 15 |
hello justin, thank you for the referal to the leech link,but i have previously read the article and i am still unable to determine from the picture above whether it is a webley screw grip or otherwise. i have very little technical knowledge but am familiar with shooting guns with a webley screw grip and can identify them with confidence when in possession. i am however stumped to identify from the picture above and that is what i would like explained. many thanks
mrwmartin
NA
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