doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Strossmayer, Marburg

Hello,
I was just told of a gunmaker (or dealer) new to me. Someone found an old double, circa 1900 or so, reportedly marked STRASSMAYER MARBURG a/d DRAU (now Maribor). This town used to be in Austria-Hungary till 1918 but is now here in Slovenia. I am familiar with a couple of gunsmiths from Maribor but this is a new name for me. Does someone know anything about him? Raimey?
With kind regards,
Jani

Jani:
I don't know of waffenhandler Stra�mayr an der Drau but I believe Johann Erhardt k.k. B�chsenmacher was from that area and was active during that time. What other country gunsmiths do you know from that area?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Yes, Johann Erhart was a well known gunsmith from Marburg/Maribor; active c.1870-c.1900. After WWI the town gunsmith there was Josip Sternad (died 1935). Maybe Strassmayer was active in the interim period.
With kind regards,
Jani

Jani:
Have you seen any wares by Hungarian gunsmiths Eduard Hrazdil in Szegedin(Szeged) or Eduard Kadletz in Gran(Esztergom)?


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
Unfortunately not. Wait a minute, decades ago I did see in a small private collection in Ljubljana a Hungarian SLE marked by a gunsmith from Szeged I think, but forgot the name.
With kind regards,
Jani

The only Marburg I know was a name on a scope Nickel Supra/Marburg...Steve

Steve,
"Your" Marburg (in fact mine too, as I have a number of Nickel scopes) is in Germany, while the less known Marburg on the river Drau/Drava (a/d Drau) was in Austria-Hungary. In 1918 it was renamed Maribor. BTW Maribor is forty minutes drive from me.

With kind reards,
Jani

Pretty country, that. Painters could get a real education in green and the green-ness of green there. I had distant relatives on the Austrian side of the line, in the little villages of the Dreilaendereck along the Raab. Visited there almost 30 yr ago - the one guy had something like 100 or so "racks" (such as they are) from reh on the wall in his study. Reminded me a lot of the way eastern Pennsylvania looked before suburban sprawl hit it hard.

Marburg was in the province of Steiermark (capital city Graz), called "The Green Heart of Austria".

With kind regards,
Jani

Johann Erhart in 1873 was listed as a k.k. B�chsenmacher Marburg, Steiermark, so I would widen his active range another say 10 years from circa 1860 to say 1900. It would have taken him say 8 years to spool up to get to the point to submit examples to a court that would have allowed him to be dubbed a k.k. B�chsenmacher. Did he pair with Gustav Lechner and have a satellite office in Graz?

Is there info that would ID examples as being the work of b�chsenmacher and engraver Johann Templer of Leipa, B�hmen/Ceska Lipa? He was active in the last 1/4 of the 19th century along with the likes of Stanislaus Striberny of M�llergasse 23, Wien.

I too wonder if there are touch marks to identify the effort by tube makers like Ferlach's Johann Schaschl, who offered some 31 different varieties of pattern welded tubes, according to adverts. Then there's Franz Umfahrer of Klagenfurt, K�rnthen, who received honourable mention for his tube wares at exhibits in Paris in 1855 and London in 1862. He hung out his tube making shingle in 1853 and 20 years later his concern was rolling out an average of 7000 tubes per year. He advertises as supplying makers in the whole of Austria(Oesterreich), in Deutschland, Italien Russland, Egypten, in der T�rkei, Moldau und Walachei, by employing some 160+ craftsmen. So it is possible that many of the tubes worn by sporting weapon examples for the late 1800s were sourced from him?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

You have J. Erhart about right. My notes on him are from circa 1866-1899. The Kaiser first used his gun in 1870. I wouldn't know about his association with Lechner. He was listed as a merchant in Graz and probably partner in Lechner & Jungl there. They started traded in firearms in the middle 1870s.
I do not know anything on Templer.
Schaschl was a well known family of gunmakers but I don't know about any specific markings. Similar on Umfahrer (who went out of business during 1870s).

With kind regards,
Jani

Jani:

Franz Umfahrer was still active in the mid 1870s and with 150+ craftsmen under his umbrella it would seem that he could have continued for a time. It appears more research needs to be devoted to the 1880s when like the craftsmen at Herzberg, may firms fell by the wayside, which just may have been due to a lack of embracing mechanization. I guess I need to get these makers in order just to see what transpired. Take Leopold Gasser for example who hung out his shingle in 1862 with all but no mechanization. By the mid 1870s he employed 400 workers, most(maybe 300?) probably at the Sankt P�lten facility churning out the Montenegrin pistol, and it seems he embraced mechanization regarding pistols and the like but little effort toward sporting weapons. It may be that a firm had to have a military contract to survive the 1870s & 1880s.

Johann Haberda(F�rst Schwarzenbergscher Hofb�chsenmacher), whose gunmaking shingle was visible on his street in Frauenberg, B�hmen in 1814(or his father K. Haberda), more than likely had an outlet or office in Steiermark in the 1870s as he advertises as supplying folks in B�hmen, Nieder-Oesterreich, Steiermark, Ungarn as well as France for the period. I can't remember right off when he was dubbed with his marketing title, but he is listed as just a gunsmith in the early 1870s.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

Franz Umfahrer closed down in 1876. Leopold Gasser was able to turn his small revolver shop into a proper factory when the Austro-Hungarian military adopted his patented revolver in 1870. As far as I know all of his revolvers were made in Vienna (Ottakring), the St. P�lten factory being a foundry for making parts in the rough. Besides making revolvers, L. Gasser offered a full range of sporting arms.
I wouldn't know if Johann Haberda was formaly represented in Steiermark but his guns are not unknown here.

With kind regards,
Jani

Jani:
What about Franz Drescher of Troppeau/Opava/Opawa? He was in Gustav Tichy's backyard but I am not sure of his dates of business.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,

I have nothing on Drescher in my head so I googled a little bit. His 16g sidelock on the Czech BAZAR (back from 2010) was made using British tubes and Liege action. The gun is marked Troppau so it was probably made before 1919. The seller (on Bazar) claims that Franz Drescher did not make over 10 guns per year.

With kind regards,
Jani

Another Franz Drescher piece from BAZAR (2011) is an o/u BBF of obvious Ferlach extraction. I would put this 7x65R-16/65 gun into late 1930s so his working span could be circa 1900-1940.

With kind regards,
Jani

Thanks Jani for the effort. I think his business model closely resembled that of Gustav Tichy and yes production may have been a dozen sporting weapons a year. I'm not sure on the British sourced tubes but it may be a British steel type like JNO HY. ANDREW & CO. LTD TOLEDO STEEL. Any idea what happened in Opawa at the onset of WWII?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
Opava turned back to Troppau in 1938 when the German army marched in, and remained so till 1945. But I do not know any particularities from this period. I imagine that some if not most of the local Germans, who were in majority, liked it. After the war most of the German civilians were expelled to Germany, mostly to Bamberg. Maybe Franz Drescher was among them, if he was still around by that time.

With kind regards,
Jani

By the way, the Czech seller of the Franz Drescher sidelock double claims that the barrels are marked as being made in Sheffield. -Jani

Jani:
If I'm not mistaken all the Andrew Jno.(Jho.) Hy. & Co. Ltd. Toledo Steel tubes have a Sheffield, England stamp. But they were made in Liege, & I would hold firmly with the same for Franz Drescher's wares.



http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/artisans%20identifies%20h/a%20halska%20v%20and%20cie%20gb.htm
I have serious reservations that any JNO. Hy. Andrew Toledo steel tubes were rolled in England.

J. Novotny did the same:

http://www.bonhams.com/auctions/20005/lot/5463/

"Serial no. 4938, 16 gauge. 27 inch blued barrels with matte concave rib; breeches marked J. Nowotny/Praha; undersides marked Jho Hy Andrews & Co.Ltd. Toledo Steel Works Sheffield. Ejectors. Automatic safety. Double triggers. Blued sidelock action. Checkered splinter fore-end with Anson release and checkered semi-pistolgrip stock of partly figured walnut. Checkered butt. Vacant escutcheon. Sling swivels."

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

More than likely has a Jno. Hy. Andrew & Co. Ltd. Toledo Steel
Sheffield, England stamp




The Franz Drescher Troppau Jani notes that it has Sheffield tubes steel.


A Blitz drilling that I believe we know where it sourced.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I just knew there was cross-sourcing or effort between Gustav Tichy(1867-1942) & Franz Drescher as it was about 45 miles portal to portal between their shingles. I'm not positive on what part Franz Drescher played so maybe Jani can translate for us:

"Prod�m kulobrok G.Tich� Moravsk� Ostrava 8x57Jr/16/65,Holland-Holland,rok v�r.1938,klapkov� mont� F.Drescher Troppau...."



Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

"I am selling a rifle/shotgun combination G. Tichy Moravska Ostrava 8x57JR/16/65, Holland-Holland, year of production 1938, scope mount by F. Drescher Troppau..."

BTW 'Holland-Holland' is a popular European naming for sidelocks.

With kind regards,
Jani

Jani:
I've seen the phrase Velejemna Armani(?) Ocel on a H. Pieper style hammer double retailed by (V)Ladislav Svestak of Praha. I was curious what type super fine steel it was advertising?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
"Very fine army steel", according to my Slovakian colegue Andy.
Armani should be Armadni in this phrase, meaning of the army (armada = army).

With kind regards,
Jani

Thanks Jani for the spelling correction. I could not read all the characters. I guess I should post an image.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse