doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Is everyone looking for a 410?

I'm with Ted on the .410 issue. Am not a good enough shot to center a bird in that thin pattern. You guys who love them, fess up: how many birds fly off with a pellet or two in their guts? A twenty is as small as I'll go. Just my tcw. Chopper

The pen raised birds come down pretty easy, I'll admit, but, I would still prefer 'em dead on impact.

Come to think of it, my smallest guns are 20s, chopper.

I don't, as a rule, "hunt" pen raised birds however, and can leave the gauge decision to whoever trained the dogs on the place...
Best,
Ted

I'm with Ted, too, at least on the .410. The 28 ga is great gun though, and plenty of gun for plenty of animals and lay targets.


The problem with a .410 is the same problem you get with a .25ACP. If you shoot somebody with it, they could get upset or even worse they could eventually get an infection.

"...they could get an infection" LOL, good one Greg.

C'mon Greg, shot coming out of a 410 barrel is going the same velocity as out of a 12ga. The 25acp analogy doesn't hold up. In the case of the 25acp, the projectile doesn't have the energy required to penetrate the distance needed. That's not the case for the 410. Same size shot going the same velocity as a 12ga. in most cases.

It's more a case of taking a longer than usual shot with whatever weapon of choice, whether handgun, rifle, or bow. A reduced angular error that is tolerable, that's all.

If game in the bag is the goal, it cuts against all those that say they don't need lots of game in the bag to enjoy. If zero wounded game is the only acceptable outcome, hunting with any shotgun is not for that person.

Gauge snobbery or payload elitism? Thankfully, we are all still allowed to assess our own abilities. As it happens, my percentage of birds bagged to shots taken is highest with the 3" .410.

Maybe respect for a gun's range limitations is what matters most.

Agree with Chuck.

Sam

No, you guys can have all of them you want. I would say for country squirrels at a few paces, or dump shooting rats in the hood, they'd be okay!

In reading everyones post, I can see that most do like the .410. I'm close to 61 yrs. old. Have been hunting since I was 14. Started off with a 12 ga J.C. Higgins pump, ventilated rib poly choke, probably weighs over 7 1/2 lbs. hunted one year only with it. Too heavy. Went to a J.C. Higgins 20 ga. ventilated rib, single non-selective trigger (Savage-Fox) weighs about a pound plus lighter, hunted quite a few years with that. Over the years collected more guns, but have never hunted upland game with a 12 ga again. Favorite gun to use now on pen raised pheasants, chucker is a 28 ga. Between the 20 ga. and the 28 ga., you're only talking 1/8 oz different in shot. I'd have to look in my journals, but I can tell you that I killed hundreds of pheasants with the 28 ga, #8, #9 shot.
The whole thing about small guages is that you have to know your limitations. Even though they were pen raised pheasants, they have a lot of fat on them, big birds, slow to get up, and make easy targets over a pointing dog, you still have to center your shots. Yes, there were cripples, but that is why you have good dogs, so that they are not lost. Wild pheasants that I've hunted years ago in Pa. are different, only because you don't get many of the easy shots. A 20 ga with a little heavier load and # 6 shot. Hunting woodcock, they only way to hunt them is with a 28ga. or .410 IMO. I do like the .410, it has it's place, and I do like them, but not for everything. Also I use 3" shells with 11/16oz of shot, not the 2 1/2" with 1/2 oz. shot.

Well, OK. I wouldn't mind a .410 but it's far down on my list as there are so many other guns I'd rather have.

This post comes up often enough that I'm beginning to see the parable that is really the underlying question.

Hunting wild birds, in real conditions, or pen raised birds in synthetic conditions.

For me, the last few weeks of pheasant hunting, after the slews have frozen up enough to support a hunter and a dog, are the best part of the season. If the temp is quite a bit below freezing, so much the better. The birds have been shot at a few times, and it no more resembles the dipiction of pheasant hunting that one sees on television than Neil Armstrong's putt on the moon resembles golfing. In truly cold wheather, shotshell performance deteriorates. I wish there was a study I could cite, but, all I have is experience as teacher on that point. But, I understand a winged wild rooster, in a foot of fresh powder, at zero degrees, is a far, far different animal than a pen bird in milder conditions. For dog, and hunter. The ruffed grouse,(can they be pen raised?) later in the season, develop a habit of getting up well out of range also. Earlier, the cover tends to be quite heavy, and the fields more crowded. I pass on the earlier part of both bird seasons. I've used 20 on pheasants in the past but, in recent seasons, have stuck to the 16s and 12s, usually with an ounce, and an ounce and an eighth, respectively. Less legwork for me and the dog involved, over the course of the season.
So, to reiterate, you guys that can put the 410 to good use, can have them. I usually can't. I'm really sorry for those that haven't experienced a truly wild, cold conditions pheasant or grouse hunt. It is wonderful. But no place for a subgauge. Snowshoes, sometimes, if we are lucky.
Best,
Ted

Muskrat?