doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ranger Marlin 90

Robert Chambers,

You mentioned engraver Ray Swan above. Back in 1982 we traveled together to the FEGA meeting when it was held within the Tulsa gun show. It has been many years since I have heard of Ray or seen any of his work. Back in those days, Ray lived in Cheektowaga, NY. Do you have any recent information on his whereabouts or if he still engraves?

Thanks,
Roger

Robert,
When it was first suggested that the gun may have been engraved in Japan I thought that highly unlikely, but upon more research I can see that aa a real possiblity. I am also interested in following the lead you suggestted as well. I think when I began this quest I wanted to beliweve this could have been factory produced. I have now determined in my mind that that is not the case. On closer inspection the latch on the forearm has clearly been replaced that is not of the vintage and design of the original.. The wood I believe is original to the gun as the stamped serial numbers on both the stock and forearm match the metal stamping on the frame and barrels. I was not offended by the off color comment as I try to see the positive in all that is offered. It did call into perspective the question why someone would make such an investment in what otherwise would be a most ordinary O/U. I certainly appreciate your assistance in helping to trace done some of the history of this piece.
THANKS

I have copied my comments from the Jarred thread below for those who may not have seen them.

I have to diasgree with Drew about the 90 being Japanese engraved. All of the engraving I've seen done by Japanese trained engravers has a very distinctive scroll. The Japanese are trained to cut toward themselves using short chisels without a handle. Their scroll looks Germanic at first blush but is cut very differently. Most of their post war work for GI's does have raised silver inlays but almost all of their long guns have their stocks carved with game scenes.

The scrollwork on the pictured 90 looks very amateurish. It is full of dog legs and elbows, especially the scroll on the forend iron. It is my opinion that it was engraved by the owner as a project piece. No master engraver at a gun factory would allow one of their engravers to put out work with such ill formed scrollwork. The stock looks pretty good but stocks are not my specialty.

I don't know who owns the gun in question and I am not trying to run down the piece. skeettx asked for my opinion and I offered it. I hope no one's feelings are hurt but I have tell it like I see it. I will reiterate that there is nothing about this model 90/Ranger that reminds me of Japanese engraving (and I have seen lots of it). All of the Japanese scrollwork I have seen is far more concentric and has characteristic cuts not evident on this piece.

Cheers,
ROger

BarclayG,
OK...the the photos are on their way...the courier learned to be an engraver under Mains and Swan...he too thought it could be a G&R gun and said it looked like Main's work...still though, your best bet may be to send the photo's directly to Bill Mains. After posting last, I read Mains history which stated that he invented the rotary engraving chuck in 1959. I have that very rotary vise he made in '59 built right into my smithing bench if anyone would like to see photos of it.

C Roger,
I haven't spoke with Ray Swan in many years (10 or so). Last I spoke he was buried in self inflicted engraving work where he agreed to do two matching guns. He explained that doing one gun is easy because you have artistic license, but when you agree to two matching, dead-nuts accuracy must be acheived on the second gun. By the way, Ray usually signed his work with a microscopic silhouette of a swan (not much of a strech there)

I really hope this pans out for Barclay

Barclay,
I'm glad you saw my post for what it was, and that your thoughts mirrored my own. Mr. Chamberpot fancies himself a "researcher", but, the truth is we already have a far better one here who posts under that name. Besides, he is still smarting to this day from having to accept that there were two companies that produced sliding breech guns with the name "Darne" on them-I straightened him out on that very issue years ago, and pointed out that he would really need to be able to read, write and speak French in order to decipher French gun catalogs, (he doesn't) and while he would like to forget it, it is unlikely that he ever will.
I suppose he thinks folks have forgotten that, but, my email suggests otherwise.
I suspect, but can't prove for you, that Kutter may have it right. My Father comissioned a Remington 700 in 7mm magnum in the very early 1960s, and the engraving is far different from that which has been applied to your gun. Proves little, I know, but there were some pretty good engravers working in Japan in that era.
I'll see about posting photos of the Remington.

Best,
Ted

Ted3000,
I'm trying my best to ignore you


and don't try to drag others into your troubled posts...I can say in all honesty, I have never besmirched the good names of Winston Churchill or Brittany Spears

Yet another instance of "hunting season can't get here soon enough".

Obfuscation:To render indistinct, or dim, darken. To confuse or becloud, Over the years, one Robert Chambers has, on this board;
1.Claimed to the board for several years to be black, as in African American. He later diavowed this claim. I have no knowledge what color he is, and, simply don't care. I have no idea why someone would do this, but, he has admitted to it.
2. Claimed all sliding breech guns are "Darnes". They are not.
3, Claimed, using a snipet of a retailers ad copy, that Darne action Charlins were produced by the Charlin company. They were not.
4. Posted photos here of Loy's engraving and "hallmark". He did not identify said hallmark. Please note, that I don't care about the poorly engraved examples of gamescene engraving he has posted, or, who did them
5. Posted various non-sense about somebody named Brittany, to further distance the argument that either Loy's or Flue's gamescene engraving is not up to the standard of others. He still has not answered a very simple question I asked about that.
6. Assaulted the character of more that one valued contributer to the board.

Perhaps someday he will add something of value to the discussion, here. But, I doubt it. Obsfucation, is about all he has ever done, here.


Best,
Ted

This was my first thought as well. Many an unusual firearm was purchased through the PX by GIs stationed in Japan and then taken to a Japanese engraver for "enhancement". However of the ones I've seen over the years this engraving just doesn't look right. Additionaly; The wood has been upgraded here as well. I don't ever remember seeing a Japanese engraved gun from that period with this feature.
Of course as a first step the factory should be contacted to see what,if anything,is in their records.
Jim

Well, I don't know about anyone else, but I find the occasional pissing matches on the board between old "frinds" to be exceedingly boring, adding nothing of importance, and better suited to PM's. Folks, get over yourselves.