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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Apr 2002
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,812 |
If you can raise a dent with plugs and a brass tack hammer deep in the bore, why can't you do the same with greater ease at the muzzle? My answer (also on a 12 Sterlingworth) was to use a tapered lathe center as the mandrel and tippy tap to fulfilling roundness. However, I can't tell from the pix if this applies to your gun. You say it doesn't show out of round in the bore at the muzzle and yet I can clearly see the "stubbed toe" on the exterior left barrel. Is it more a matter that the very end of the muzzle is crunched and irregular? As stated above, I'd think you could dress normal to the barrels with a file or sanding block. As the man said a 1/16" is a 1/16" and won't be any more than that if that's all the depth of correction you need and the limit of the correction you make. Surely the solder key is not shallower than that.
jack
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,559 Likes: 22
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,559 Likes: 22 |
If you can raise a dent with plugs and a brass tack hammer deep in the bore, why can't you do the same with greater ease at the muzzle? My answer (also on a 12 Sterlingworth) was to use a tapered lathe center as the mandrel and tippy tap to fulfilling roundness. However, I can't tell from the pix if this applies to your gun. You say it doesn't show out of round in the bore at the muzzle and yet I can clearly see the "stubbed toe" on the exterior left barrel. Is it more a matter that the very end of the muzzle is crunched and irregular? As stated above, I'd think you could dress normal to the barrels with a file or sanding block. As the man said a 1/16" is a 1/16" and won't be any more than that if that's all the depth of correction you need and the limit of the correction you make. Surely the solder key is not shallower than that.
jack Appears there is a number of ways to fix this. The barrels have some spots of cold blue already, so they were going to have to be re-rust blued to look correct. If nothing else, this could be my rainy day grouse gun. Its a 16 gauge btw with 28" barrels. Chokes are supposed to be full/mod, but I'll confirm that when it arrives.
foxes rule
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
Having seen the minimal damage I would agree that welding is unnecessary, dressing it off a little would make it unnoticeable.
However, I have to disagree on some points with both Gunman and RWTF.
Firstly an experienced craftsman with a TIG welder would not do any damage to the chokes and neither would he damage the blacking more than it is worn already.
Secondly, in my ignorance I was unaware that barrels and rib extensions were case hardened. New one on me.
If the case hardening was still apparent on ACTION components, then welding is bound to destroy them. Rarely on a gun needing this kind of quite extreme repair does one find much in the way of case colour.
However, I have had very fine TIG welding done within a few mm of traces of CH and once the weld is dressed off and the immediate area suitably polished (or otherwise) the CH was still there and unchanged.
I would most certainly disagree with RWTF's assertion that one must 'NOT TIG weld any metal parts on a double gun'.
If I followed that rule, many modest guns would be consigned to the scrap heap due to the price of making up new sears, luggers, extractor toes, corroded furniture, damaged casting... the list goes on and on.
TIG welding done by a craftsman with experience in gun parts (parts which then go on to be correctly hardened, tempered and finished) is capable of repairs that I have considered to be miracles at the time but now I accept as almost commonplace.
Technology is a wonderful thing. It should be wielded by people who have a sense of what is and is not possible but the guts to experiment (and admit when it doesn't work!). So, Limey "gun-smythe and half-assed TIG welder- I hold two union trade cards as a Journeyman welder, code on : pressure vessel, steam boiler, API and nuclear power plant stainless water circuit piping-- 30 years plus in the trade, and I still weld almost every week (Miller 250 TIG/SMAW) in my shop- I didn't say shotgun barrels were case hardened, but the action parts are, and unless you anneal them first (and know how to read Rockwell or DHP scales and what they mean, as well as spark testing metals- we'll if you want to 'experiment' and "see WTF happens" on your own valuable shotguns, it's a free world, brother- But you'll see your beloved Queen Lizzie go down a zip line in a bikini before you'll ever 'experiment" on any of my firearms- A friend had a fine CHE 20 Parker made in 1920- but the sears were worn in the bent of the tumblers- so a "gunsmythe of the shady tree persuasion" said he could "rebuild" the work areas of each trigger (tumbler to you Limeys I guess)- but he forgot to anneal the through (not case) hardened parts first-- It cost my friend $500 to have Larry Del Grego Un-FUBAR his family heirloom Parker, and that was back in 1980-- you may be a half-vast gun mechanic over in Limey Land, but you don't know Jack about metallurgy or welding- whether TIG, MIG or SMAW-- and don't ever try to tell me about TIG welding here or on any other forum--like all welding processes, it has its limitations, and is not a "playtoy" from Home Depot for the rookie to experiment with--
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 610
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 610 |
Some people are as about as suttle as an A-bomb. I don't see any cause for inslulting our friends across the pond.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,393
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,393 |
I have seen vitriolic outbursts before from RWTF, who seems to hate the English, and I think he told us all why on at least one occasion. Tell me again, why do you hate Brits?
I think he must post in an alcoholic stupor. Class A jerk anyway
Just ignore him. Every board has one, it used to be VoutsiKakis, right? Now it's this moron.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Welding fumes and union cards will do it every time....
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Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,529 Likes: 80
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 1,529 Likes: 80 |
I repeat . Why make somting simple complicated ? Finding a credited welder who is prepared to do the work for a couple of dollars then the finishing off ect. Its a 15 minute job .
But if you want to go the welding route then fine. I am sure Mr. Fox will do the job for you .
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
I fixed a muzzle loader I had with a similar problem with just a light touch on a belt sander.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 839
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 839 |
Welding fumes and union cards will do it every time.... True dat, Homey!! Foxy gotta "fur glove hand... and a schoolyard mind!"
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
I repeat . Why make somting simple complicated ? Finding a credited welder who is prepared to do the work for a couple of dollars then the finishing off ect. Its a 15 minute job .
But if you want to go the welding route then fine. I am sure Mr. Fox will do the job for you . Be glad to, but NOT barrels or case hardened frame parts- two possible exceptions to the "Never TIG weld" any shotgun parts-- (1) the trigger guard bow- commonly done if re-shaping to a straight hand grip long tang- all guard bows are basic AISI 1018 mild steel and are NOT heat treated-- (2) a Steel skeleton butt plate-- again, similar metallurgy to the trigger guard bow--RWTF
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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