doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com About E. Paton, gunmaker for RHR Prince Consort.

My search for info about Prince Albert's guns and hunting (I'm doing a piece on that for a Russian publication) turned outh this topic

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post209355

So, do I get it right that:

a) the "prince consort", for which E. Paton was gunmaker, is the Prince Consort, i.e., Albert

b) Paton was appointed 9 years after Albert's death.

c) Paton applied for this title after Albert's death (for reasons of advertising) and was given it due to Victoria's common-knowledge unwilingnsess to accept Albert's death? (or was it the other way round, and the appointment was filed for when Albert was still alive? then why so long a delay?)

d) Albert actually had at least one firearm made by Paton

e) Paton is pronounced Pay-ton?

Thanks in advance for any info on this topic

Last year, together with the other two founder members of the Perrins Owners Club, we were invited to go up to Windsor Castle and see the gun they have in their collection by Thomas Perrins, which was owned by Prince Albert. Simon Metcalf � the Queens Armour � and responsible for the collection of weapons and armour took us round and showed us many of the guns Prince Albert owned � by many makers. He was an enthusiastic hunter and it was all too much to take in with the couple of hours available to us.
Simon had kindly dismantled the double percussion 16 bore which was No.2, of at least a pair. While the No.1 is missing the one they have has seen a good deal of work but is still in very good condition. The inside of the locks were as good as the day they were made.
We were privileged to be shown many of Albert�s guns which are not on public display and we thank Simon for the effort he went to on our behalf.
If you ever get the chance to visit Windsor it is well worth it. The guns are fantastic, there is a wonderful display of armour and you can see the musket ball which killed Nelson.
John

Thanks, Oldfarmer. Too bad the publication is too poor to send me on a trip to London for this article The Perrins you picture doesn't look like a Royal gun at all - rather, like a regular workhorse. I gather, most other Albert's guns were finished in a similar manner?

A gun I have may also be of interest. It is by George Fuller of London and the top rib reads as follows: GEORGE FULLER MAKER TO H.R.H. THE LATE PRINCE CONSORT, 3, WATERLOO ROAD LATE OF 280, STRAND, LONDON. That is about the longest rib engraving I have ever come across. The gun was made around 1874. It seems to indicate that Fuller made guns for Prince Albert at some time in the past. The gun I have is a 12 bore double hammer gun with Jones underlever and is in virtually mint condition having had hardly any use. I can supply photographs if it is of any additional interest to you. Lagopus.....

Lagopus - yes, thank you, that would be very kind!

How did the system of calling oneself "a maker to his somethingness..." work anyway?
Didn't these makers have to get a Royal permission, or just the fact they made a gun for a prince was enough?

The Perrins gun in the Royal collection was made by Thomas Perrins - a brother to the Worcester gun makers and worked in Windsor after he left Worcester. The gun is well used � as can be seen from the stock.



It was a nice gun � but not exceptional � well engraved and nice Damascus barrels.









I�m afraid the light was not great for taking photos in the workshop.

We couldn�t understand at first why the Worcester premises had the Royal appointment above the shop. I can only imagine that they did work for Albert through the Windsor shop connection which qualified them.

As far as we understood it any regular supplier of goods to the Royal household could apply for the royal warrant. Unfortunatly the Royal warrant records covering this period have been lost.

So they had to apply. That settles it. Thanks again.

A Royal warrant is granted by the Monarch or her immediate household. I think Purdey's hold the Royal warrant as Gunmaker to Her Majesty and also H.R.H. The Duke of Edinburgh and also H.R.H. The Prince of Wales. Hollands used to hold the same to King George V. Hull Cartridge Company hold the Royal warrant as cartridge suppliers.

In the case of my Fuller I think that he may have just made a gun once which he presented to the Prince Consort as a gift which at least then entitled him to say he was a Gunmaker to His Royal Highness without holding a warrant. It wasn't a lie and sounded good. I don't think he was alone with this idea.

If you play around with this site it should answer some questions: http://www.royalwarrant.org/ this may also explain a bit: http://search.bt.com/result?p=royal+warrant&fr=slv8-bt-odtb If you just put Royal Warrant in the search engine it comes up with loads of information.

I will photograph the Fuller and come back to this thread again soon. Lagopus.....

When we visited Windsor Castle Simon showed us some of the presentation guns as well as the 'working' guns. Unbelievable craftsmanship - but it did see a little sad that so much highly skilled work went into making guns that would never be shot. Several of the big bore rifles had small gold pins inserted in the stocks - I guess it was the equivalent of a cowboy notching his revolver butt????

It doesn't look like this little bit of PR worked, either for Paton or for Fuller. I mean, from what PeteM posted about Paton in the thread I linked, it appears that Paton wanted to move upmarket around 1870, or why would he open a London office and start calling himself maker to the prince consort? (the info that he was "appointed" gunmaker to HRH seems to imply he had a warrant and applied for it). But neither Paton nor Fuller are even close to being recognizeable. In fact, a Google search for Paton turns out only five guns - that's hardly a success.