doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 10ga vs 12

You will see 10's as light as 7 1/4 lbs. every so often. The English built light 10's. I have an 1890's Crass that is set up as a pigeon gun at 8 lbs/30 in. m/f. Using 1 1/4 oz. 5's I have killed crows at 60 yds pretty regularly. Lots and lots of fun.

Lots of positive replies! Sounds like 10's are a lot of fun. The one I have my eye on is a very good original condition 32" damascus G grade Lefever. Most likely weighs 8.5lbs I would imagine. I do like the uniqueness factor, and I wouldn't be carrying it in the uplands very much (I use my 16's for that), Mostly just ducks and turkeys. Hmmm.....

Mark:

I have a 10 gauge Darne (a pretty rare gauge for a Darne) that weighs 7 pounds 3 ounces and there's a Lancaster SLE for sale on this site that weighs 6 pounds 8 ounces, so there are upland weight 10s out there. I also have an A. Hollis 10 gauge hammer gun from the 1880s that weighs 8 pounds 4 ounces. I would not want to carry it for long periods as an upland gun, but it's fine for waterfowl and turkey.

They are a lot of fun. The ammo is expensive, but no more difficult to load than any other gauge (and a lot easier than .410s).

If I could have the 10 of my dreams, it would be an Ithaca 10 gauge chambered for the 2-7/8 inch shell, but that Lefever you're eying might be a more than adequate substitute.

There is a compilation of 10 gauge data floating around somewhere. I think I have it saved in electronic form. If you buy the gun, drop me a line and I'll send it to you.

Rem

Hi Mark,

I have a Westley Richards 10 bar in wood with 27" damascus Brls. It is a 1865 hammergun and is about 7 3/4 lbs. I use it for ducks and geese mostly but sometimes I take it for phesants in the late season. I load 2 7/8 bismuth and some lead. Nice handling out of the duck boat. Someone told me it was a field gun. I also have a later Westley 10 hammergun that is a lot heavier.

Dwight

Mark, The one gun I've sold that I wish I could have back was an Ithaca NID 10, 3.5". However, it was a heavy gun and dedicated for turkeys. It didn't take long for me to get weary of carrying it. However, the gun you have your eyes on sounds like it would be fun gun for the use you intend. Do you need it? No. Do you want it? Yes. Buy it. Gil

In the next issue of the Double Gun Journal I believe there will be an article featuring a high-grade Hollenbeck/Syracuse Arms Company 30" 10-bore tipping the scales at 7 pounds/3 ounces. This gun looks and feels like a 12-bore.

As to shooting 10-bores, all my experience has been limited to modern, heavy 10-bore guns and 3 1/2" max loads; but for the standard turn-of-the-last century 10-bore, the standard load was a 2 7/8" case loaded with 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 ounces of shot. With those loads, 10-bores could be made very light weight, by modern standards; and should be very comfortable to carry and shoot.

When one considers the modern 10-bore, consider this example to illustrate just how dramatically shell technology has advanced since those early days. I recently acquired a few vintage roll-crimped 8-bore Remington shells with a loaded length of 3 1/4" (3 1/2" fired) and loaded with 5 3/4 drams of some unknown powder and 1 3/4 ounces of #2 chilled lead shot. A modern 3" 12-bore magnum has been loaded with 1 3/4 ounce, and heavier payloads for as long as I can remember. Given what technology has done with modern 10 and 12-bore shot shells, makes one wonder why the 8-bore was ever declared illegal in the first place? I vote we bring back the 8-bore!

Mark,

I guess you wanted to hear the good and the bad (and the ugly?). I don't want to rain on the parade but, I really did not care for the one I owned. I had an 0 Grade L.C. Smith, 32" barrels, damascus gun. It was solid as an anvil, but weighed nearly 10 lbs. I handloaded for the 2 7/8" chambers, which was no problem at all. I tried to like it. Shot it at ducks in Arkansas, clays here, just couldn't get used to that weight so far out there. It swung like a club, and I am used to long, heavy guns.
It was only suitable for turkeys, IMO.

If you really want to enjoy it make sure it balances better than mine did. Not trying to discourage you from buying a ten, just want you to make sure you don't mind toting and swinging what you buy. I know there are English tens that handle beautifully, but I think the good handling American tens are few and far between.

Good luck! SRH

My early Lefever E grade 10ga has 32" bbls & weighs a solid 10lbs, I don't carry it. Most American 10ga guns I have hendled over the years were not quite as heavy as this one, but most were also definitely more than 8lbs. I have handled a Barber & Lefever 10 ga hammer gun & while I didn't have opportunity to weigh it (at a gun show, no opportunity to shoot it either), it was lighter than most, I suspected close to 7lbs with its 28" bbls. If I had one like it I would carry it just for the fun of it.
W W Gereener stated at least prior to 1910 that the only advantage the 10 held over a 12 was when shot charges exceded 1�oz, he highly de-cried the loads with a powder charge of up to 5 drams under 1�oz in the 10ga & recommended instead a 4D-1�oz load. I highly suspect he was right. Bore capacity of the 10 is only 13% greater than the 12, while the 12 excedes a 16 by 21% & the 20 by 40%.

It is precisely your arguments which look like allowing the bigger-than-12 gauges back into the duck swamps here for the first time in many many decades... I'll keep people posted on that as it happens.

I wouldn't take anything for my 10.