|
S |
M |
T |
W |
T |
F |
S |
|
|
1
|
2
|
3
|
4
|
5
|
6
|
|
7
|
8
|
9
|
10
|
11
|
12
|
13
|
|
14
|
15
|
16
|
17
|
18
|
19
|
20
|
|
21
|
22
|
23
|
24
|
25
|
26
|
27
|
|
28
|
29
|
30
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Forums10
Topics38,481
Posts545,234
Members14,410
| |
Most Online1,335
Apr 27th, 2024
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021 |
Nice try Dig, nice try.
Just kidding Dig, those are beautiful guns!!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 191
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 191 |
Why do I always feel like a little kid in a candy store with empty pockets when I'm on this site. So many beautiful guns and so little money.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,993 Likes: 402
Sidelock
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,993 Likes: 402 |
Well I know a best gun when I see one.....those are it. Nice. Something subtle and refined about Harkom guns. Often sleepers in my opinion.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 7,065 |
I am glad to be here.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 709
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 709 |
There are better boxlocks, I don't know about best.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 601 Likes: 39
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 601 Likes: 39 |
Boy, you guys are a tough audience. I have a W&S 700 & a W&S 701 & I like them both for what they are but they in no way compare to the Harkom guns. The W&S 701 was the highest grade of the 700 series & is nicely done but is still just a highly finished 700 w/dovetail lump bbls, pierced bottom plate, very average checkering & all.
I would vote the Harkom guns as best boxlocks for their period of manufacture. In later boxlocks with fluid steel bbls I would like to see chopper lump bbls before calling them best boxlocks.
I really like the bolting , the detail work & finishing on the Harkom guns.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6 |
I don't think it is fair to compare these guns to W&S 700-series guns (nice guns, I own one but a totally different beast from these apparently unique guns). The fact that this is a garniture, with such an unusual and beautifully executed interface of top lever, barrel extension and fences reflects a level of effort that should equate to best. For a boxlock, this has to be near the apex of a gunmaker's art - whether that is the same thing as a "best" sidelock I will leave for others to debate.
I would love to have heard the discussion that went on at Harkom as these guns were conceived and built!
Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 704 Likes: 1
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 704 Likes: 1 |
Nice guns! Stunning wood and fences!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,982 Likes: 106
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 2,982 Likes: 106 |
Those are really beautiful guns IMHO. It appears they don't have intercepting sears. Smallbore, apparently safety sears are not a requirement for a 'best' English boxlock? I've heard the internals are gold plated with these Harkom guns. Is this the case?
Socialism is almost the worst.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,174
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,174 |
I am pretty low on the totem pole around here as far experience with these guns goes... but these guns look like "Best" guns to me. To those that think they aren't, what is it that disqualifies them? What needs improving?
Just trying to educate myself.
Thank you!
Adam
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 602
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 602 |
Presence or absense of any particular action type like SLE or feature like intercepting sears or chopper lumps (on damascus barrels?!) doesn't, to my thinking, denote best or less; materials, fit, finish etc do.
They are magnificnet, and appear to have been built to a standard rather than a price point; I bet the person who commissioned them, and the people who built them weren't thinking "how much"...
"Garniture": now there's a word not heard often enough!
Last edited by cadet; 07/17/12 11:44 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15 |
Viewing pictures on the internet is a tough way for me to see quality level without many macro shots.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18
Boxlock
|
|
Boxlock
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 18 |
I saw this set of guns several years ago and am suprised that they're not tucked up in someones collection.The work inside is as good as outside and they truly are some of the finest work that you will ever see.The case that they are in finishes them off superbly.The wood is not to fancy because when these were made the manufacturers used English walnut on them.They end up with the patina of a piece of good quality funiture.
A great set that should make someone very happy.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544 |
OWD, Greener would object to you calling a Facile Princeps a boxlock.
His G-guns took more time and cost more to build than his sidelock.
The quality if the Harkoms is beyond criticism. Unless you can tell me where the materials, craftsmanship, fit and finish do not equate to best work.
They are not for sale.
Last edited by Small Bore; 07/18/12 03:10 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Nice guns mo doubt but Cabelas had a nicer Harkom boxlock listed a couple years back.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,350
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,350 |
For my taste, a shooter, best gun I've seen.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 156
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 156 |
Come now, my good man, they aren't British!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 68 |
IMO, about the nicest double,boxlock today is the Westley Richards droplock models, in either 20 or 28 bore. Of course there are other makes just as fine, it just depends on what each of us like. I also like the CSMC, Fox model, guns, exhibition grade or just below that.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13 |
Guys-
They are nice guns. No doubt. And I'm sure the work is first rate - 100%.
But I wonder about the quality of the actual components. From what I've seen, those aren't best-grade A & D actions. They are nicely finished, but aren't they missing some pretty basic, best-quality features -- like a removable hinge/cross pin?
Best guns combine best quality parts with best quality components, and you can't have the first without the second and the third.
It's an interesting subject. I would love to hear what everyone thinks.
Thanks,
OWD
Last edited by obsessed-with-doubles; 07/18/12 09:40 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6 |
Not only are they wonderful examples of gunmaking, but a great lesson in the vagaries of the definition of "best".
How many man-hours of work did it take to shape those actions, not once but three times in identical fashion?
Last edited by Doverham; 07/18/12 09:58 AM.
Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13 |
Maybe a lot - or maybe not that much. Harkom may have farmed it out to a specialist who did that kind of stuff all day, every day. Sumner's shop was turning around fully engraved Boss SxS in under a week. And while the fences/toplever area is very detailed, the body of the actions aren't. This Scott Reliance had more work done to it:  OWD
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 72 Likes: 4
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 72 Likes: 4 |
Beautiful guns and a trio,wow! Thx for sharing.
How does it compare to a Webley A&W 51 action as they are considered good boxlocks.
Last edited by Oberndorf; 07/18/12 11:19 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13 |
BTW: check out this sidelock Harkom: http://www.christies.com/lotfinder/LargeImage.aspx?image=/lotfinderimages/d20096/d2009659x.jpgA FINE 12-BORE SIDELOCK EJECTOR GUN BY J. HARKOM, NO. 2293 The lockplates inset with gold-inlaid cocking-indicators, best foliate-scroll engraving with traces of hardening-colour, boldly-figured stock with butt-plate, the browned fine damascus barrels with game-rib Weight 6lb. 10oz., 14 7/8in. pull, 29in. barrels, approx. I.C. & 3/8 choke, 2in. chambers, nitro proof I wonder which one the maker considered to be his best? OWD
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544 |
The boxlocks give nothing away in quality to that Rogers type back-action sidelock. Nothing at all.
I'm not sure where you are going with this OWD - simply finding guns you like better and saying "see this is better" doesn't inform us very much. The type of hinge pin only indicates the early nature of the guns, the double dog cocking levers influenced this choice and were expensive and complex to make and fit.
I was not offering up a challenge with the photos, they are best quality by any measure. I just thought they would be interesting for people to see.
BTW, for those interested in provenance, they were made in the late 1890s for Sir James Ramsay-Gibson-Maitland, who became the 4th Baronet of Clifton on the death of his father in 1876.
Last edited by Small Bore; 07/18/12 02:10 PM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,486 Likes: 393
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,486 Likes: 393 |
This discussion is seeming to have devolved into a back and forth as to whether a boxlock can be a best or must it be a sidelock. A good chunk has been a discussion of workmanship, as it should be.
But quality of material and workmanship aside, what inherent characteristics of either type make them better or worse for what they are designed to do...fire a load of shot down a barrel. I'm thinking reliability, trigger feel, weight distribution as it may affect handling, anything about the design, not the specific execution on a specific gun.
It strikes me, neophyte that I am, that the sidelock/boxlock discussion is very much like the London/other discussion. While London may have been the centre of the universe for high quality guns and their use of the sidelock to denote best gun status has been widely acknowledged, these seem to be issues of branding and marketing, not of fundamentally superior design or levels of workmanship that could not have been done elsewhere.
Dig, I would say you accomplished your intent...those guns are interesting and I suspect most of us are glad you posted the photos.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 601 Likes: 39
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 601 Likes: 39 |
Small Bore,
Are the Harkom boxlocks ejector guns & if so what ejector system is used?
Very nice guns. I absolutely love the fences & the way the dolls head & 3rd bolt are done.
OWD,
The Scott Reliance may well have more detail work done to the sides of the action but to me it's not nearly as attractive as the Harkom guns.
Re. lack of features that make a gun a best. In general I agree with you but:
1.I think you need to consider what the standard of manufacture & materials were for a best gun at the time the gun in consideration was made (i.e. you can't discount a damascus bbl gun as a best because it doesn't have chopper lump bbls as no one made chopper lump damascus bbls that I am aware of).
2.There are always exceptions such as Westley Richards detachable boxlocks which have fixed hinge pins & would by most people considered to be best boxlocks if not best guns period & early H&H Royals some of which had dovetail lump bbl construction but would still be considered best guns by most people's standards.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13 |
Not at all, Small Bore.
All I'm doing is pointing out guns with other characteristics as a way to inform the discussion.
"Best" is a judgement call. If you're going to judge something, you have to have criterion.
I'm trying to define that criterion based on what I've seen and on what others have explained to me.
OWD
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,438
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,438 |
Some of the discussions that occur on this forum amaze me. As far as I know and have ever known there is no hard and fast criteria defining "best". I'm sure the determination of "best" varied from firm to firm and I expect that Purdey's concept of "best" was probably different than Greeners just as an example.
A long time ago some judge back when they usually had common sense stated. "I don't really think I can define pornography but I recognize it when I see it."
I'm fairly certain my own perception of "best" is in variance with others on this board but I certainly don't have any problem with it's use in describing the triplets that started this thread. They are outstanding in my book.
Jim
The 2nd Amendment IS an unalienable right.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544 |
It is easy to confuse mechanism with quality.
A non ejector can be made to best quality, and they were.
There is no list to which one can refer to determine what features a best gun of a particular type would or would not have in order to be of the best quality.
One has to look at the gun and judge it on its merits.
Some makers added intercepting sears to mechanisms, others did not. In some (like many Alex Martin boxlocks) they were added (many would consider them an over-complication and of dubious benefit), in others (like H&H 'Climax' models, intecepting safety bolts were used in lower quality guns).
It was certainly possible to take the basic A&D action and make it to the highest quality. That is what the Harkoms are, though they too have their refinements, like the double dog cocking limb and gold-washed internals.
Most Harkom boxlocks of this era have Deeley box ejectors.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 426 Likes: 11
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 426 Likes: 11 |
Beautiful gun's Small bore, thank you very much for shareing,I don't spend much time on this board...but it is a wonderful place to spend time when there is'nt so much @*%# being slung
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13 |
Small Bore-
What's a "double dog cocking limb"? I've never heard that term and I'd love to learn more about it.
How does it work, what are its benefits, etc?
Any pics?
Thanks for the help.
OWD
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544 |
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4...e=1&theaterHere is a link. Basically, most A&D actions have a cocking limb for each lock. They project from the knuckle either side and lock into holes in the forend to form a lever and cock the gun. This is a combination of the two, going into a single projection, which fits into the forend and cocks both locks. Similar to what Greener did with the Facile Princeps cocking arms, but his acted on a projection on the lump, not in conjunction with the forend.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,672 Likes: 4
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,672 Likes: 4 |
I think that if they had a College of Double Guns that a lot of the posters here would be tenured professors with lots of letters after their names.Great back and forth comments!
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13 |
Thanks for the education. I love it when I learn more.
OWD
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881 |
Dig, Very nice guns, thanks for sharing.
I have admired the work of Mr. Harkom for some time.
MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
As far as I know and have ever known there is no hard and fast criteria defining "best".
Agree with this statement to a certain extent. I believe that master gunmakers fully understood what was required to reasonably call a gun a best. They not only knew "best" work when they saw it, they also knew what it cost to get it either with in-house labor (an employee had the requisite skill) or from out-workers (a particular job that required "best" work was sent to contractor of known skill with instrructions for "best" and a price to match).
I'm sure the determination of "best" varied from firm to firm and I expect that Purdey's concept of "best" was probably different than Greeners just as an example.
I don't think it varied by much. Individual design required some differences in work detail. But, when you look, there is a lot of similarity in craftsmanship. Considering the specialized shop in which the Greener "G" was built, I doubt that it gave away anything to Purdey's. BTW, the market believes it is something more valuable than an A&D finished to "best".
A long time ago some judge back when they usually had common sense stated. "I don't really think I can define pornography but I recognize it when I see it."
A sensible statement from one who has the experience to know intuitively what he is looking at. However, without said experience it is not such a good idea.
I'm fairly certain my own perception of "best" is in variance with others on this board but I certainly don't have any problem with it's use in describing the triplets that started this thread. They are outstanding in my book.
From such discussions do we all learn.
Jim I think I saw these guns about 10 years ago. If so,I agree they are "best work." DDA
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,023 Likes: 24
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,023 Likes: 24 |
About 15 years ago at the Las Vegas show,I spotted an English gun case I wanted to buy. The gun in it looked like a nice one, but I didn't pay much attention to it because I really just wanted the case. The owner didn't want to sell the case alone. When I got back home, I gradually realized the seller wasn't asking all that much for the gun and case. I sent him a check,and when the case arrived I was amazed to see how nice a gun the Joseph Harkom really was.I've enjoyed it ever since. About three years ago I found another,not entirely original but almost better since it had been rebarreled by Boss with best chopper lump barrels sometime in the fifties.Does anyone know if Harkom records are available? Incidentally, the Harkom actions bear a striking resemblance to those Daniel Fraser used in his double rifles. Was there some connections between the two shops?
Bill Ferguson
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
rmb, no reason to be surprised at action similarity. Almost without doubt, both sourced machined actions from Birmingham; maybe even barreled actions or complete guns in-the-white. The smaller makers seem to have made good use of the trade. For now, we can only guess at how much work was done in the shop of/by Mr. Harkom his very self. However, we can for sure appreciate the end product, how ever he got it done, that Mr. Harkom got out.
DDA
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544 |
Having spoken to a lot of Birmingham gunmakers - nobody has any folk memory of who made guns/parts/barreled actions for Harkom pre-WW2, or pre-WW1 if I think about it.
It appears that the better Scottish gunmakers had their own men and did the vast majority of the work themselves.
After WW1 more and more began to buy in part or fully completed guns from AA Brown (whom made Dickson boxlocks), Webley and the other Birmingham wholesalers.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,736 Likes: 96
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,736 Likes: 96 |
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Nice gun.....but the wood work is a long way from being best.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 426 Likes: 11
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 426 Likes: 11 |
Beautiful gun Michael.  Joe, you're cracked !...and brutally honest ,alway's good for a chuckle with the morning coffee 
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,373 Likes: 6 |
Lovely engraving on that gun, Lagopus. Is that a pin next to the triggerguard screw (my apologies for not using the proper Brit gunmaker terms)? If so, what does it do?
Such a long, long time to be gone, and a short time to be there.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,736 Likes: 96
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,736 Likes: 96 |
Doverham, sorry I don't know the answer to that one; maybe Smallbore can answer. Joe, it's just what Midland Gun refer to as the 'Best Boxlock' that they do. It is quite a light stock but I don't think that the photo does it justice. It could just be as the customer chose for that gun. I thought that I would just illustrate it in reply to Smallbores comments on higher end non-ejectors as an example. Thanks Newf. Curiously the added extras would have bought this:  Their sidelock non-ejector 20 bore 'Dreadnought' model and couple of flats of cartridges for each gun! Lagopus.....
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 319
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 319 |
Dig and Lagopus Thanks very much for the pics,they are beautiful !Could someone please tell me what is wrong with the woodwork on that Midland?
N.R.A lifer
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,642 Likes: 1
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 3,642 Likes: 1 |
The Harkoms are very nice, but I'd like them better if they had scalloped actions.
JC
"...it is always advisable to perceive clearly our ignorance." Charles Darwin
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,749 Likes: 744
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,749 Likes: 744 |
There are a couple of over runs in the checkering on the forend, which doesn't appear to match the checkering on the buttstock-but the photos don't give enough evidence to determine the last point.
The fitting to the back of the action looks pretty good for an older gun. One see's few boxlocks with well done drop points, nice touch.
Dig, while I agree with your point of Greener's self acting ejector guns costing more than some sidelocks back in the day, one niggling little point I stumble over is just how delicate (and, difficult to get repaired, especially over here) those guns are.
I've looked at a few, and have been spooked out of purchase by their reputation.
Best,
Ted
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544 |
Ted,
Greener self acting ejectors are a pain in the backside if they go wrong and are much more sensitive than other boxlocks and sidelocks to tighten.
Looking at them today as reliable shooting companons, I'd say don't buy a Greener G-gun as a gun for hard daily use. When you shoot it loose or it goes out of order, getting it put right will be a bigger problem than for other types of action.
This is, of course a totally different issue to evaluating the quality of the guns when made. We just don't have a big Greener factory full of top class specialist gunmakers to send them to anymore.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 704 Likes: 1
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 704 Likes: 1 |
Well put by Small Bore IMO.
In regard to purchasing a used G gun, not every G gun out there has been put through the ringer so to speak. Some are in excellent shape and are just as reliable if not more so than anything else on the used market. The key is to know what you are looking at in a used G gun and as Small Bore points out few of us do. Kirk Merrington is someone that comes to mind as someone who would know.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,749 Likes: 744
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,749 Likes: 744 |
Kirk actually advised me to stay away from them.
Best,
Ted
|
|
|
|
|
|
Black and Tan
Unregistered
|
|
Black and Tan
Unregistered
|
Hi Dig,
I was excavating my office and found a 1997 copy of "The Gun Collector" (vol1, issue 4). Low and behold there were your Harkoms in the Auction Highlights for Sotheby's on 25 August. Estimated at 2500-3500 sterling and went for 6325. The reporter waxed quite enthusiastic about Harkom and the interest level.
Rand
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,553
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 3,553 |
What do you think they are worth now...15 years later???
franc
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544
Sidelock
|
|
OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544 |
Depends on the sale conditions - auction or retail.
I'd say 20,000 should give you a ball park.
But they are not for sale. The owner knows they are unique and he will keep them in his collection.
Last edited by Small Bore; 07/21/12 05:08 AM.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 185
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 185 |
I have a greener "best" grade confirmed by Graham Greener in a facile princeps boxlock action. Made in 1883 and sold at the Paris gun show shortly after. There are certainly boxlock "best" grade guns.
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Rumor is Greener thought everything he built was "Best".
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 185
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 185 |
Joe. I have been away for a few months. Its comforting to know you havent changed. I had an A&D greener that I sent back to the seller because it was crapped out. Greener did not claim that to be a best......
|
|
|
|
|
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 704 Likes: 1
Sidelock
|
|
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2011
Posts: 704 Likes: 1 |
I have a greener "best" grade confirmed by Graham Greener in a facile princeps boxlock action. Made in 1883 and sold at the Paris gun show shortly after. There are certainly boxlock "best" grade guns. Pictures, pictures! Let us see that Greener!
|
|
|
|
|
