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Forums10
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Apr 27th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13 |
Not at all, Small Bore.
All I'm doing is pointing out guns with other characteristics as a way to inform the discussion.
"Best" is a judgement call. If you're going to judge something, you have to have criterion.
I'm trying to define that criterion based on what I've seen and on what others have explained to me.
OWD
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,438
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,438 |
Some of the discussions that occur on this forum amaze me. As far as I know and have ever known there is no hard and fast criteria defining "best". I'm sure the determination of "best" varied from firm to firm and I expect that Purdey's concept of "best" was probably different than Greeners just as an example.
A long time ago some judge back when they usually had common sense stated. "I don't really think I can define pornography but I recognize it when I see it."
I'm fairly certain my own perception of "best" is in variance with others on this board but I certainly don't have any problem with it's use in describing the triplets that started this thread. They are outstanding in my book.
Jim
The 2nd Amendment IS an unalienable right.
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544 |
It is easy to confuse mechanism with quality.
A non ejector can be made to best quality, and they were.
There is no list to which one can refer to determine what features a best gun of a particular type would or would not have in order to be of the best quality.
One has to look at the gun and judge it on its merits.
Some makers added intercepting sears to mechanisms, others did not. In some (like many Alex Martin boxlocks) they were added (many would consider them an over-complication and of dubious benefit), in others (like H&H 'Climax' models, intecepting safety bolts were used in lower quality guns).
It was certainly possible to take the basic A&D action and make it to the highest quality. That is what the Harkoms are, though they too have their refinements, like the double dog cocking limb and gold-washed internals.
Most Harkom boxlocks of this era have Deeley box ejectors.
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 426 Likes: 11
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 426 Likes: 11 |
Beautiful gun's Small bore, thank you very much for shareing,I don't spend much time on this board...but it is a wonderful place to spend time when there is'nt so much @*%# being slung
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13 |
Small Bore-
What's a "double dog cocking limb"? I've never heard that term and I'd love to learn more about it.
How does it work, what are its benefits, etc?
Any pics?
Thanks for the help.
OWD
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,544 |
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=4...e=1&theaterHere is a link. Basically, most A&D actions have a cocking limb for each lock. They project from the knuckle either side and lock into holes in the forend to form a lever and cock the gun. This is a combination of the two, going into a single projection, which fits into the forend and cocks both locks. Similar to what Greener did with the Facile Princeps cocking arms, but his acted on a projection on the lump, not in conjunction with the forend.
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,672 Likes: 4
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,672 Likes: 4 |
I think that if they had a College of Double Guns that a lot of the posters here would be tenured professors with lots of letters after their names.Great back and forth comments!
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,832 Likes: 13 |
Thanks for the education. I love it when I learn more.
OWD
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Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,881 |
Dig, Very nice guns, thanks for sharing.
I have admired the work of Mr. Harkom for some time.
MP Sadly Deceased as of 2/17/2014
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,954 Likes: 12 |
As far as I know and have ever known there is no hard and fast criteria defining "best".
Agree with this statement to a certain extent. I believe that master gunmakers fully understood what was required to reasonably call a gun a best. They not only knew "best" work when they saw it, they also knew what it cost to get it either with in-house labor (an employee had the requisite skill) or from out-workers (a particular job that required "best" work was sent to contractor of known skill with instrructions for "best" and a price to match).
I'm sure the determination of "best" varied from firm to firm and I expect that Purdey's concept of "best" was probably different than Greeners just as an example.
I don't think it varied by much. Individual design required some differences in work detail. But, when you look, there is a lot of similarity in craftsmanship. Considering the specialized shop in which the Greener "G" was built, I doubt that it gave away anything to Purdey's. BTW, the market believes it is something more valuable than an A&D finished to "best".
A long time ago some judge back when they usually had common sense stated. "I don't really think I can define pornography but I recognize it when I see it."
A sensible statement from one who has the experience to know intuitively what he is looking at. However, without said experience it is not such a good idea.
I'm fairly certain my own perception of "best" is in variance with others on this board but I certainly don't have any problem with it's use in describing the triplets that started this thread. They are outstanding in my book.
From such discussions do we all learn.
Jim I think I saw these guns about 10 years ago. If so,I agree they are "best work." DDA
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