doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Murder weapon

For a crime novel I need an early side by side double in 12 gauge. It should be a good quality older (late 19th or early 20th century) American gun, such as a well-to-do man might have inherited. Because both gun and shell casings have been recovered, it is necessary to be able to describe both accurately and in detail. There are many descriptions of guns on the web, but they don't give the kinds of information that would interest a detective. None I have seen even says what the chambering is, much less whether the shell casings are brass or paper, or whether they are currently available commercial nitro loads. It makes a difference, for example, whether the shell is rare or common, as it affects the detective's ability to trace it.

I am completely dependent on the good will of you experts here, since I can offer nothing in return except my thanks and an honorable mention in a manuscript that may never be published. My limited expertise is in handguns, so I will have to take what you say as gospel.

Cal any of the better known British makers are good. i.e. Boss, Purdey, Holland & Holland, Westley Richards and so on. If you need rare go with a rare gauge such as 14.

From wikipedia: The 11, 14, and 18 gauge shells are the rarest of them all;[citation needed] people who own these types of rare shotguns will usually have their ammunition custom reloaded by a company that specializes in rare and custom bores for a high price. The very small 24 and 32 gauges are still produced and used in some European countries and Brazil. Punt guns and special purpose guns, such as the Russian 23 mm KS-23 (approximately 6 gauge), do exist, but are rarely encountered.

also: http://www.chuckhawks.com/shotgun_myths_fables.htm

Here's one by Parker: http://www.turnbullmfg.com/store.asp?pid=20574

Good luck

You need to speak to Bill McPhail. His American guns from the last quarter of the 19th century should provide an ideal candidate. They are different from the normal pile of US guns one sees, tend towards the expensive and hand-built and would have been for the discerning, wealthier gentleman and were looked after and handed down,as you require.

The advice above is great....I'd add that wealthy gents of that era tended to favor graded American guns (Parker's, Foxes, Smiths, Fefevers) and English doubles with some French and German offerings thrown in.

Depending on the murderers personality and location the gun could be a larger bored waterfowler, a mid western pheasant gun, a southern smaller bored quail gun or a svelte northeast grouse/woodcock small bore double. Once this is decided the guns individual attributes (gauge, specific ammo including shot size, choking, bore diameter, stock and barrell length) can be discerned. There is little ballistic evidence a shotgun can provide beyond what those attributes can show, especially in that era.

Keep us posted.

two points- I agree with the advice to describe the main character- where he lived would have an affect on the choice of configuration of the gun, with what he hunted, or was he an urbanite who did not hunt but shot trap, will allow a very documentable choice for your story.

and

may I add, last night while out to dinner with my wife I was commenting on another news story where the description of the firearm involved was laughable. I keep hearing of semi automatic machine guns, revolvers described as autos and so on.

One a while back, not a firearm - but one of my favorites, was the young lady reporting on the bomb squad responding to a grenade (turned out to be a practice dummy) found in the home of a deceased WWII vet, she looked at the camera wide eyed and said with serious emphasis "and the pin was still in it"

I said that they should have someone who has at least some knowledge of the topic give a story a quick proof read.

and then here is your post--

good for you in the attempt to make the story believable.

One of the State of Illinois put-and-take pheasant areas had a road through it. Some fool pheasant hunter (Cheney perhaps?) sprayed a school bus with #7.5 shot, if that wasn't bad enough the newspapers described it as buckshot. Lord save us from idiots on both sides of the fence.
Steve

Cal,
If the "gun and shell casings" were both inherited and recovered - what is the relevance of "the detective's ability to trace it?"
The type of examination you're describing would probably be done by a forensic firearm examiner.

Here's a few suggestions- one of my favorite writers, who has a strong background as a former NYC police reporter is Thomas Harris, creater of the Hannibal Lecter character. He really covers military weapons very well in his "Hannibal Rising"novel--Dragunov sniper rifles, Broomhandle Mausers and the silencer modifications to one, Schmeissers, other good stuff- Even a fine Holland & Holland double rifle (caliber not noted) gets his passing mention (page 135) , but I would "go to school" with a good reading study of his masterful style of covering gruesome events and the weaponry used to promulgate them as well.

That being said, may I offer a theme concept that could perhaps tie the perp's occupation to the make and model of shotgun used in your rough draft? To wit: (A) An Eye Doctor and a LeFever Optomist Grade gun, (B) A retired Col. of the 101st Airborne Division and an L.C. Smith Eagle Grade, (C) An owner of a condom factory in CT and a Parker Trojan Grade, (D) An art museum curator with works of; Vermeer, Brughel and others of the Dutch persuasion and a Holland and Holland Royal, (E) An owner of a paint brush factory and, of course, a Purdey, (F) Director of the United States Marine Corps Band and a Ithaca Sousa Grade, (G) A columbaire bird thrower in Spain and a Model 21 Winchester Pigeon Grade, and lastly, a reired stunt man from the 007 movie "Goldfinger" and a Browning Midas Grade-- "Be Happy In Your Work" RWTF

I think RWTF needs an exam... and it ain't "forensic."

But he apparently likes the Goldfinger...

Amusing.