doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com popularity of 16 guage shotguns

All I know is this little 16 ga. Belgium guild gun makes my heart go pitter patter .

But this 16 ga.Husqvarna has recently come to live in my gunsafe so this fall there may be trouble in paradise .

I own a custom Fox 12 gauge that tips the scales at 6 lbs 12 oz. Well balanced, small grip and made to fit me. However, there is certainly a difference looking over those two barrels as compared to my 3 different Fox 16 gauges. There is something about a gun made in America and while I have zero doubt a lightweight british game gun can perhaps tip the scales at the same weight as some of my Fox 16 gauges (my lightest is 5 lb 10 oz) they aren't american made and I'd have to order my shells on line.

So in short, I'm staying with the 16 gauges for what I like to do and that's NE and SE grouse and woodcock work. They won't be the only Fox I carry as I'm also a big fan of the little Fox 20 gauges as well (have two of those). Guess in short, there is no totally right or totally wrong answer. I'm just glad we still have the option of the 16 gauge.

Amazing! Eleven pages in this thread so far, and no one has mentioned the advantage of the "square load" in the 16 as a basis of its superiority. A few years ago there would have been pages of argument over that. Although I have at least 6 sixteens, including Charlin, ND, Parker, Rem 1894, and 2 LC Smiths, none are my favored hunting gun. For quail, doves and preserve pheasant and chukar I use a 20, with either 7/8 or 1 oz of shot, for wild pheasant over pointing dogs I want a 12 ga with 1 1/4 oz of #5s. The 20 will do anything a 16 will, and is usually lighter with even more slender barrels. I believe that the 20 ga with modern shells is why the 16 is not more popular - its not needed.

I agree about the 20 for quail and doves, Tom. I have a 20 that has taken nearly 8000 doves, here and abroad. Only reason I use the 32" Elsie 16 for late season doves is that I just love looking down those long barrels. I have never felt the need for more than 7/8 oz. 7 1/2s on any doves, even the big, late season, tough migratory doves.

You make a very good point about the 20 stealing popularity from the 16.

SRH

For me this Samuel Buckley labeled Westley Richards in 16 gauge is pure fun.

Now, Tom...the 20 can't do everything the 16 can WITH A SQUARE LOAD! I guess I am of the opinion the 20 isn't needed because the 16 can do everything it can. The sixteen was the most optimized bore that could make a drilling truly portable in the early days, and therefore it will stay on board as long as I am alive. (since the guns I know of are on definitely on track to outlast me) In a perfect world I would be more in favor of 10/16 ga. domination than 12/20 as far as square loads go. Then again, a number of 10 guages are not exactly the definition of portability. Let the popularity slide--then I'll pick up some sweet sixteens for less money. Steve

I came to the 16 rather late, but as a lifelong reloader since age 14, I have yet to see a 20 ga. 7/8 oz or 1 oz load pattern better or out perform the same weight in the 16 ga. A lot of 20 ga. 3" loads were tested and I feel the same about the 3" 20 as the late Bob Brister; "Why would anybody want to shoot that high-pressure little bast***?" One of my 16's is the Harrod's (Webley action) pictured below. 29" barrels and a weight of 6 lb 3oz. With 2 1/2" shells and 7/8 oz of shot, I would put it up against any 20 ga. I won't mention one of my other favorite 16's as it has a single barrel and a moveable forend.
"
"Last time I saw a chance like you, I shot about there." - Nash Buckingham

Two big problems with the "Square Load" theory.
1st about 99% of folks don't even know what a Sq load is & only quote some gun writer's definition which happened to suit their purpose at the time. The oft cited 1oz load in a 16ga is a round ball equivilent load, not a sq load. By definition a sq lod is one in which the length of the shot column in the bore equals the bore dia. This will of course vary somewhat dependant upon shot size & density of the shot but for a general rule of thumb will equal approximately 79% of the round ball weight, which can of course be found (in ozs) by the simple expedient of dividing the ga number by 16 (OOOPS, was thinking one thing & wrote in reverse, you of course divide 16 by the gauge no). Thus a 16ga Sq Load is about .790oz or between 3/4 & 13/16oz.
2nd; There is really & in actuality no know proof that a Sq load makes any discernable difference in the performance of a shotgun pattern. If however one feels they just have to have a Sq load for effectivness about the two squarest loads you can find are the British 12ga game load of 1 1/16oz in a 12 or 1�oz in a 10ga. I don't know how many times I have read that supposedly W W Greener was a big proponent of the SQ load. I only have a copy of his 9th edition of The Gun & its Developmaen, but the Sq load is conspicious in this book by its total abstinance, its just not mentioned. He did state in this book that the 10ga only offered advantage over the 12 with loads in "Excess" of 1�oz as the 12 would handle that amount of shot quite as effeicently as the 10. This of course was prior to the development of progressive burning powders.

I figure the square load theory was carried over from the muzzle loader ?

I've shot a bunch of patterns with various 16's, none of which have been square--even when using 1oz loads.

Stan, if you're paying more than $10/box for RST 2 1/2" 12's, before shipping, they must be charging you a premium. $100/flat on my price sheet. And you avoid the shipping charge if you show up at any of the shoots they attend. Just call ahead of time and pick up there.

But for some bizarre reason, people keep missing the fact that you don't need to buy factory 2 1/2" shells for most 2 1/2" chambered guns. How many times do we have to relearn what Sherman Bell established in one of his early "finding out for myself" articles in DGJ--and which, for that matter, Major Burrard and Gough Thomas both pointed out decades earlier? Assuming pressures appropriate to the gun in question, we can shoot 2 3/4" hulls in short-chambered guns. Even works for 16's and 20's, as well as for 12's. (Shot a couple rounds of skeet with a 2 1/2" Elsie 20ga last evening, 3/4 oz reloads in unmodified STS/AA hulls.) I can produce nice, low pressure 12ga reloads in standard American factory hulls cheaper than you can buy 16's, even when you find them on sale at Wally World.

And 2-Piper, it's news to me that the square load abstains. I always figured it was so much BS that it had to be drunk.