doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ugly Uggie, not cocking the right hammer-FOUND IT

Well, kinda, Gnomon.
The steel facility that supplies the gun makers in the Eibar region is a cooperative. The bits of one manufacturer gun's come from the same place as the gun that was made down the street. And, the bits are castings, not forgings.
Castings are less dense, and less expensive, than forgings, and while they CAN be made up into useful bits for double guns, it requires very talented steel workers to get it right. I suspect, but can not prove, that the gun makers with fewer problems on record for soft parts have brought the hardening in-house to address the problem.
The problems do continue to this day, but are not common place anymore, and the gunmakers have better dealer repair facilities than they once did. Lost in the furor is the fact that other gunmakers, not in Spain, have dealt with the same exact issues.
I also suspect that LCS won't be very interested in helping the original poster out, once they hear he has the gun apart. As suggested, he can get the raw materials for a spring from Brownell's, and take it from there.
I wish Hoof good luck in this repair.

Best,
Ted

Did you call Cole Haugh for the spring?

When I did some work for David Yale told me he used to do the repair (warranty?) work for one of the Spanish shotgun importers. I don't remember who, it was a while back.
He quite possibly could help with a part.
He's in Delta, Colorado now.


David Yale

S.M.T., Inc.
5600 Sawmill Mesa Rd.
Delta, CO 81416
970-874-1088

Ted, are you certain that such "bits" as sears and springs, screws, triggers, bridles are or ever were castings?

I used to be very "into" Spanish guns and rebuilt several for my own use and never encountered any evidence whatsoever for soft steel. Having never seen a soft-steeled Spanish gun (nor has any of the far more serious collectors I know) is why I suspect that if there indeed ever were any such guns they have all been used up and thrown away. Guns made in the past 20 years or so certainly have never been accused of suffering from soft steel.

I suspect that "soft Spanish steel" is just one of those gun legends that won't die gracefully.

The springs are not castings. Neither are the frames. The balance of the bits, are.
Properly done up, they are entirely suitable for the purpose at hand.

Best,
Ted

Respectfully, and with no offense intended, this is untrue; the 'bits' found in Spanish shotguns are not castings. The day one finds a cast part in a Spanish shotgun is the day to beware of pigs roosting in the tree tops :-)

Got that from Cole Haugh himself. He spent time there, and makes a point of rehardening some of the components inside an Uggie when ever they come in for repair.
I was told by Cole that he re-hardened the strikers and the hammers inside my gun, and he turned new strikers and supplied a tool for the discs. I did ask for the strikers and the tool, the rest was just a nice touch.

Best,
Ted

Ultimately, the whole cast vs. forged thing is just not a meaningful discussion. All of the small parts (hammers, sears, lock plates, triggers, safeties, and so on) are that wonder material of the late nineteenth century - low carbon steel. It makes no functional difference whether the steel that will be shaped to make those parts arrives as a casting or a forging; it will be filed into the shape desired and then either surface carbonized (as in the case of the hammers) or flame hardened (the triggers) to the desired hardness.

And that hardening, when not done properly, is whence we get the myth of 'soft steel'. All, and I do mean all, low carbon steel is soft and easy to work. That's why it is the preferred material. The problem is when the shaped and finished parts are not correctly heat treated (or heat treated at all).

To understand how this absence of heat treatment happens requires understanding Spanish artisanal shotgun making. It's not an industrial process, it's an artisanal process. Improper heat treatment isn't particular to any specific maker, to any identifiable period of time, or to any particular model of gun. Improper (or absent) heat treatment happens when an artisanal maker is faced with filling an industrial scale order. Artisanal processes just don't scale up well.

On vacation with my family (God help me) until next week. Then I will try Cole. As was expected I have not heard back from LCS. I would like to have the tool to pull the firing pins also.

That has not been my experience. I find them still missing the mark quite often. Just a few things to come in the last few years on new Spanish guns:

a loose hinge pin on a high grade 2 barrel set sidelock

screw that never had the slot fully cut, yet ended up engraved and hardened

soft firing pins

ejectors, single trigger and safety issues on a best grade boxlock built to order for an author who writes in the hunting magazines.

Over all I'm less than impressed, by it could just be the Anglophile coming out in me, but I think not.