doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com H&H Royal @ Holt's - No Sale??

Check out this 12g H&H Royal at Holt's last sale. I wonder why it didn't sell:

http://auctions.holtsauctioneers.com/asp...3&saletype=

OWD

Lefty ? Previous owner ? Really fine engraving in that period.

Yeah triggers and cast are all set for a lefty.

Maybe the older (1897) manufacture date scares some off too.

restocked, rebarreled to 27" and set up for a lefty. Should be an easy sale......

hello,
i realise the question is probably tongue in cheek but i shall offer my answer regardless!
replacement barrels,short barrels(by current fads), second half of a pair,re coloured,replacement stock,triggers for left,stock cast on for left.
any other issue not identified in description eg balance,wall thickness, bore condition ,general appearance and feel etc

cheers
mrwmartin

Could be the seller put to high a reserve on it. Lagopus.....

Yeah - I don't know. Even with all the work done to it, I thought it looked decent.It's a real pretty gun. Maybe it photos well, but has some warts we can't see.

It can be bought today for �8000 + VAT and the commission (which is BRUTAL at Holt's). Probably $16,000 or so landed over here.

Today I think it would cost you around that for the new H&H bbls. Forget about the rest of the work someone had done to it.

The lefty thing shouldn't be too much of problem. Triggers can be turned. Perhaps the stock has a lot of cast in it and it can't be bent?

OWD

Many good guns made for left handers also had their tangs etc. bent. That's tough work to make "right".

What's wrong with replacment barrels by the maker? I have a Purdey and a Royal for sale with new barrels by the maker and I would prefer them to thin barrels or sleeved barrels.

Me too Mike. They are discounted a little over original though. I guess because of collector interest? I've also wondered if the reduction in value is partially because a gun with replaced barrels may be indicative of a gun with lots of use especially in those with very thin original barrel walls. A damaged original barrel such as from a bulge would not necessarily indicate hard use but then how would one know in most cases the reason for replacement barrels? I would prefer replacement barrels over sleeved but I guess for a 'shooter' it wouldn't matter much either way in terms of utility. Obviously it would in terms of value at least if I was the one doing the buying.

I think new bbls by the maker are great. I would buy a gun with them because I know that those guns can be great deals. Most of the time, they simply don't bring the money that a comparable gun with similar original bbls brings.

But I would pass on just about any gun that needs new bbls. It's usually too expensive to do. And unless you steal the gun, it's real, real, hard to ever get your money back.

OWD

hello owd,
replacement barrels may not be a barrier to all but the current gun market in the uk has very little demand for "short" 27 inch barrels and this is likely to have hindered a sale for many.
cheers
bill mrwmartin

Excellent point - and kind of odd.

Back in the heyday of the 25" bbls, did people miss that many birds? Did they shoot that poorly?

I bet they still killed plenty of game with those stubby tubes.

OWD

hello again,
i understand that even when churchill xxv 's etc were at their most popular they were still a tiny minority on shoots in comparison to the longer 28 and 30 inch.
whilst i fully agree that a capable shot may perform well with short barrels history and fashion have dictated that they are no longer popular,hence no demand.
i can, of course, miss equally as well with all lengths!
cheers bill
mrwmartin

Absolutely!! I prefer new bbls over originals in good condition (probably more modern alloys).

This gun had just too many features that made it, in my opinion, worth a lot less. Also, the market is rich with re-barreled guns that realistically fetch a fraction of that one.

There is nothing wrong with them, but the market for re-barreled and/or re-finished guns is overloaded hence prices are pitifully low hence good deal abound if one wants one!

Recolor casehardening on 100 year old guns never seems right, especially on an H and H Royal whose engraving shows so well when worn.

To my mind it is a shooter. So the question is what is it worth to someone who can use it as a shooter.
A fellow club member could shoot this gun without alterations he thinks_ depending on the amount of cast.
With warts and all taken into account what is the current market value range of this gun as a shooter for a lefty?

Another way to look at it:

If the low estimate was �8000 (appx USD12500) and Holt's seller's commission is 20% then the seller would accept USD10,000. I don't know what the relationship between low estimate and reserve is at Holt's but the seller would probably have had a reserve of about �6000 if Holt's permitted that spread. That kind of reserve would mean that the seller would have accepted less than USD8,000.

If I was a lefty and the gun fit and if I wanted it I personally would pay about USD10,000. but not much, if any, more. I would be far more comfortable in the USD8-9K range.

But I wouldn't take an auction house's word for it (ANY auction house) and would want to examine it myself or have someone do it for me.

Thanks Gnomon.

Your thinking is on a similar vein as our discussion - � 6-7K. He will be in contact with the house to set up a viewing. Your information is much appreciated.
Anyone else care to voice an opinion.