doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com New Westley droplock

This was just finished to order and I went up to check it for a client of mine before authorising dispatch to the US.

It is a .470 Westley Richards hand detachable lock double rifle. Engraving by Peter Spode.

It will be hunting elephants in Botswana next month.

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1...e=1&theater

Now THAT is a beauty!
I always like an understated banner in gold, really sets off the case.
Great double!-Dick

Dig, Is that a brand new rifle from Westley Richards? And what kind of wood is that?

Finished this week. The wood is walnut, basic WR stock.

Not a bad result eh?

Nice. Hope the client goes out and shoots about $1000 worth of .470 ctgs. before his trip. What brand and load was used to regulate?
JR

I have an acquaintance in The Yukon who ordered a .577 double rifle from WR about three months ago. He told me it was the first .577 order WR had received in a very long time. He too is going over to Africa to hunt elephants although he has not yet picked the specific country. Personally, I think WR guns are right there with the best London guns and priced almost one half than a comparable "best" gun.

The best the world has to offer in dangerous game guns, ask any professional hunter, and they have been doing it for a very long time!!

Glad to see "best" is something that never changes with WR.Wow!!

Westley Richards 500 grain solids. The rifle fits, shoot it like a shotgun.

Sorry for my complete ignorance but what makes it a drop lock?

Cheers,
David

The bottom of the action (box) opens and the two locks (lever work) drop out the bottom for cleaning, inspection, and lube. Some DR's are supplied with complete interchangable extra locks for the unlikely, but still possible, event of a malfunctioning lock. This feature nicely negates the boxlock criticism of requiring a somewhat more complicated process to remove and service the lockworks as compared to sidelocks.

I used the term 'droplock' in the presence of David Trevallion once. He told me the term 'droplock' is a sort of slang and these Westley Richards guns should properly be referred to as 'hand detachable locks' for what it's worth. Apparently, and according to DT the bottom of the receiver should be facing up when the locks are being removed and therefore the locks don't drop out but are rather removed by hand. What Trevallion said made sense to me.

Back in the day when the WR Agency was in Springfield, MO it was often mentioned that the proper term is, in fact, "hand detachable locks", but "droplock" was also never a stranger in the gunroom there. I used to hang out there during my lunch hours and the occasional Saturday afternoon......much better than a pool hall! I'm still thankful to good old Bob Francis there for my basic training in British doubles years ago. He's a good guy and I wish him well.

Stunning rifle, I call them droplocks as do a few others I know, IMO a Westley droplock is just as good as a Holland Royal, gorgeous guns, best

I'm not writing a PHD thesis that requires perfect nomenclature. 'Droplock' is a term so widely used as to be almost standard though not descriptively accurate or sensible as a means of instruction. I'll make sure I never refer to my Harley Davisdon DYNA Street Bob a s a 'Hog' again, lest I offend someone.

It is actually a misnomer if there ever was one - the one thing you are supposed to avoid is to drop one!

Is that a spare pair of locks in that little case, or are they the locks out of the gun.
That is a beauty, Dig!
If I won the Lotto I'd order a 28 ga WR droplock. 28" barrels, LH POW stock,that would do me nicely, thanks.

Nice to see my favorite maker is staying true in the 21st century.

Oooh, but those first couple scratches are going to hurt!

A bit of sensitivity Diggory? No offense intended!

Tamid,
This link has some great pics that need no explanation.
http://www.hallowellco.com/droplock.htm

It seems to me the value of a hand detachable lock (drop or side) is in the ability of the user to quickly replace the lock while on a trip with a spare. If you don't have spares, it would seem that the design is simply a novelty that is expensive to build.

You know Chuck, that women don't have to look the way they do to get the job done....but it sure enriches life that they do. I think the droplock is in a bit of a similar category........if it didn't exist there would be less beauty in the world. Maybe an expensive novelty but I WANT ONE!!! ;-)

Bob,
After some thought, I agree.

I am convinced that doublegun men are expensive novelty addicts. Myself included.

Hey, Chuck.

The Drop Lock seems a bit of a solution chasing a problem, but the locks can be more easily serviced; same as a sidelock. And, that complaint has been leveled at boxlocks many times.

DDA

I DID find it a bit humorous to see someone giving Dig a "lesson" on Westly Richards - sort of like given Winston Churchill a lesson in leadership - funny. By the way, the UK Westley Richards website has "Droplock" as one of the selections to click when looking at new guns.

www.westleyrichards.co.uk/GUNS-Shotgun/Shotgun-Detachable-Lock-Droplock

I dont own a WR drop lock but would like to have one. They are really beautiful guns. On further analysis, however, they are really just a high priced and glorified boxlock. I would like to have one but I really see no advantage to this gun over a generic boxlock. For example, if a lion or buffalo is charging you and the gun fails, it would be too late before you could change your hand detachable lock no matter how expeditious you are in changing them out. Rather, I would prefer a standard sidelock gun for a similar amount of money or a generic boxlock for a whole lot less. Why not just get a sidelock which are proven and excellent guns?

Sidelock or boxlock failure in a hurry will not help, thus you have a PH as backup for such a contingency. Different is if you can replace a brocken lock to continue your safari. Then makes sense that WR offers detachable lock guns plus a set of extra locks, putting this kit in equal footing to a sidelock with detachable locks (plus extra lockplates). Giving equal reliability to both systems, still a new WR droplock + extra locks (�50.000) is more cost/efficient than a new London best sidelock. Same should apply to second hand guns of similar condition and age.

EJSXS

Buzz, we're talking about Westley Richards here. They have been building dangerous game rifles for over 150 years. Their muzzleloaders were hunting dangerous game in Africa before we were barely a nation. Kind of puts it in focus don't it?

Treb, You are right. Westley Richards hand detachable lock guns are FINE guns. I want one! I don't need one though....I have too many guns. They are very, very fine guns and I have handled one. I don't have anything bad to say about one. I'm more than glad they are still in production! But they are still a boxlock and not a sidelock, if that counts at all!

How many sidelocks with extra locks have you ever seen?

The pint of the hand detachable locks is that should it be required, the locks can be replaced without tools. Very useful if going away for years into rough country. Probably academic to most today.

Boxlocks have fewer moving part than sidelocks of any type. They have bigger limbs and are more robust. If made well they are almost indestructible, do not require maintenance for years and years.

Buzz, go and find a new, cased sidelock with extra locks, of similar quality for the �56,000 that this one cost.

Personally, I rate these as the best double rifles for the money available anywhere, indeed, they are the practical choice of many of the most experienced dangerous game hunters today. They are beautiful and very tough and functional. Also regulated beautifully.

Think carefully about how you all define 'boxlocks' BTW. What do you mean exactly? Where does the prejudice against them come from? A 'glorified boxlock' eh,? How little understanding of what makes a good double rifle action that comment shows.

Being a manufacturing engineer, I see and appreciate the innovation and beauty of the boxlock much more than the sidelock. It is truly a leap (revolution) in the gun design from the sidelock.

However, the sidelock has had essentially centuries of evolution and refinement. It is THE classic gun design that stirs nostalgia in the mind.

Both are pretty cool to me...for different reasons.

In practical use, I generally find that the boxlocks to have better strength in the stock inletting. I'm fixing a sidelock stock right now that has split the stock in various places within the inletting of the sidelocks, whether due to design or execution.

I think each design has weaknesses and strengths. I'd like to see some more innovation and evolution in the boxlocks. But, change comes slow on something in a niche market as a sxs shotgun.

Ok, you successfully put me in my place. I'm a shotgun guy and have NO interest in rifles and if I did I would go with a Winchester Model 70 for a WHOLE lot less money. A .458 Win out of a Model 70 would kill anything on earth, including a dinosaur. And I wouldn't have to pay �56,000 for it!

To my mind the Westley Richards hand detachable locks and particularly the trigger-plate actions of MacNaughton, Dickson and David McKay Brown stand at the height of the gunmakers mechanical art. And I'm an avid Beesley fan!

They are ingenious in design, reflect enormously well on their original architects and have relevant real benefits. In both cases the actions can be presented pinless and this, if I recall correctly, was the reason that hand detachable locks were very first designed by WR in 1895.

Tim

Buzz, I couldn't agree more. I put a sidelock way above a boxlock regardless of how well that boxlock is made. Give me a James Purdey & Sons or a Thomas Boss any day. But that Westley Richards was pretty nice!!

One of the advantages of a droplock over a standard boxlock is the ability to dry, clean, and oil the locks after they get wet. Not much of an advantage in Amarillo but if you lived in a rainy, misty, humid climate and it was the custom to go out even on wet days.

As discussed in the current SSM article on Westley Richards, hand detachable was an unexpected outcome of the instruction given to the WR designers to remove the unsightly pins from the boxlock.

That wet humid climate tears up the guts of a gun. Isn�t that why on the English �Best� guns destined for Africa and other bad climate areas all of the internal parts of the lock work is gold plated to minimize corrosion?

Small Bore, spot on, a Westley Richards droplock double rifle is just as good as a Holland Royal sidelock. I am lucky enough to be "looking after" a pair of Royal double rifles for another generation and whilst I prefer them, a Westley is their equal for a lot less money. The detachable lock IS useful. I was in the Selous last year and for two whold days it tipped down with rain. On the third day I had a quick shot at an impala for the pot, front trigger wouldn�t fire, got back to camp, took out the lock, cleaned out the water and oiled it, hey presto, back in action, best, Mike

Buzz,that makes no sense, sure an M70 in .458 will kill anything on the planet, so will an AK47 with solids but do you want to hunt with one ??? Treblig, I�ll take the Westley over a Purdey or Boss for DG,less to go wrong, best

Mike, of course, I�ll defer to your experience. But I do love the sight and feel of a good sidelock whereas a boxlock always looks clunky and clumsy, but only when compared to a sidelock.

The bolt-action rifle has replaced the double for most hunting but you never know when you have to wade through that tall, thick grass looking for that wounded animal.

'A boxlock' and 'A sidelock' suggests that each is one type and quality of gun with definable and immediately differing 'sight and feel'. They are not.

Handle enough of both and you realise there are also 'clunky, clumsy' and indeed, crude and badly made, sidelocks and beautifully balanced and perfectly finished boxlocks.

There is a big difference between a cheap three pin coil spring back action sidelock made at low cost and a Westley Richards Model Grande de Luxe boxlock, which cost twice what their best sidelock did. Lots of grey areas in between!

Come on Dig, we are speaking English guns here, who have a history hunting the most dangerous game in the world that other gunmakers can only dream about. With that being said, you know as well as I that the epitome of the gunmaking world is an English built sidelock.

buzz - It's rare that I contest any poster's remarks but when the boxlock is a Westley Richards, droplock or not, then you've got excellence that no sidelock can better. IMHO of course.

Oddly enough there is a matched pair of 20b Westley Richards bar action sidelocks for sale right now for about $35.9k on Guns International. Beautiful guns but unfortunately appear 'out of proof'. I would imagine a matched pair of WR droplocks would be at least that much, probably more, so it appears the market agrees with you. Personally however, I would still prefer a well made bar action sidelock with intercepting safety sears over almost any boxlock, at least with shotguns. ;-)

In the end, it doesn't seem to matter much. I mostly shoot old Blackpowder shotguns these days!

And Marc are these black powder muzzleloaders boxlocks?
No, they are not. The sidelock has 'been there' and 'done that' long before that johnny-come-lately boxlock contraption showed up!!

The Anson and Deeley boxlock was invented in 1875. That was a long time ago and I doubt if the Hammerless bar action lock with tumblers, as opposed to hammers, is all that terribly much older.

And the timeline on the "droplock".

1897 patent date for detachable lock version of the Anson and Deeley boxlock action.

KK, I'd give a word of caution to your post. Despite and not to detract in any way from the fine guns WR has built, they have also produced some fairly pedestrian BL's over the years. I'd caution all buyers to carefully "size-up" Original Quality all BL's under consideration for purchase; regardless of the maker's name. A "best" BL is, IMO, always worthy of consideration.

No, treblig, the one I'm talking about is my 12 bore boxlock 1890. Beautiful covered engraving, beautiful damascus barrels, beautiful gun.

I do have a blackpowder Westley Richards I bought from Tony Treadwell, but that's a Lllooonnnggg story.

Also, believe it or not, I've seen other Westley Richards boxlocks and they were mostly the cat's meow!

Rocketman, I couldn't agree with you more. That's why I mentioned that MOST of the WR boxlocks I've seen were the cat's meow.

I've seen Westley dogs here and there as well.