doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Wilh. Collath-Sohne 12 ga SxS shotgun.

Hello Gentlemen:

I am looking for related information and, if possible, aproximate value of a really interesting shotgun.
It belongs to a friend of mine, here in Mexico city, and we will apreciate if some of you can upload the photos I have. Belive me it is worth the effort, so if any of you can help to show the photos in the forum (send them to an e-mail) it will be great.

The shotgun is German, side by side, with a very rare locking system and also a unusual safety. It is in very nice condition (like new I think).

This is the information I have:

Wilh. Collath-Sohne
Franfurt
A- Oder
Witten Tesco Excelsior

It is a 12 ga, 70 mm, with 75 cm barrels and extractors, choked extrafull both sides. The photos will tell a lot more.

Thank you in advance for the helping to upload the photos and the knowlege comments you will do.

Best,

Jose:
I tried your email but it bounced back but I may have typed it wrong. Email me the pics & I'll post them for you. Does the underside of the tube look similar to the following pic??:



MERCO just may have made it if "TESCO" isn't present.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I missed the "TESCO" stamp with was used by Collath's sons(Franz & Paul) after Wilhelm Collath expired(June 21st, 1906) and was for TESchner COllath. So they made it in their shop more than likely from sourced components post WWI, which would be a guess. It may be dated. Witten tubes were used on their higher offerings. The example is typical Teschner-Collath and was patented. The following is an advert showing the safety that I'm pretty sure came from littlegun:



Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

More pics and I hope better resolution than my 1st attempt. Very nice oak leaf engraving throughout.
















Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Nice butt, thou!

A few questions:

Do somebody know about the history of the maker?

Does the locking system has a name?
Also, does the unusual safety has a particular name?

The tigerguard and the front lever are made of some kind of horn.

Can I say for sure that the shotgun was made in the 1920´s?

Some guess of value in your Country?

I fall in love with this shotgun since I met her yesterday. So rare and so beautifull; perhaps not very shotable with those extrafull chokes.

Best,

Wilhelm Collath was born in Greifenberg, Pommeren( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gryfice ) on February 25th, 1838, which was the same year that Georg Teschner founded his firm in Frankfurt an der Oder.
In 1858 Wilhelm Collath began his walkabout and he may have begun in the Danzig area. By 1859 he was employed in the Teschner shop and 11 years later in 1870 he was a partner as well as became a member of the Frankfurt an der Oder gunmaker's guild. Sources give that in the 1890s Wilhelm Collath purchased the Teschner firm. Johann Nikolaus von Dreyse may have laid the foundation with his needle-fire gun and Teschner & Collath built on his design with Berger of Köthen in the mix somewhere. The action is typically referred to as the Collath or Teschner-Collath action. Wilhelm Collath had at least 8 weapons patents with 1 being a needle-fire type patent. His design was an "eccentric" lockup with a tipping barrel breech and really no hinge pin. When the horn underlever is moved to the left, the tubes move forward and then up with the forend/receiver acting like a trough. Evidently Collath, etal, really believed in the action as they didn't really deviate from it and were about the only ones offering it. Even though they sourced other craftsmen, which just makes economic sense, they were makers to the trade. Around 1900 the Teschner-Collath firm was churing out 1000 examples per year and by 1906(Wilhelm Collath expired on June 21st of that year) there were around 100 craftsmen employed for the effort. But from marks on Collath examples, it appears that the firm sourced the craftsmen at Zella-Mehlis as well as Suhl. Seeing your example has "TESCO"(TESchner-COllath) I'd say it passed thru the Frankfurt an der Oder proofhouse, which used Troisdorfer powder and closed in 1939, post 1912 and pre-1923. It just may have been made in the post WWI - 1923 period. Georg Teschner had some odd cartridge designation where a 10 bore was 0 and a 28 bore was 8. It seem to catch on in parts of Europe. Teschner-Collath was in the cartridge development and I'd say most of their examples would only accept their proprietary cartridges. Many times on the sides of the barrel lugs the calibre or number will be stamped there.

On the safety, for now I'll guess it is of the mastermind Collath or Teschner.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

A cutaway showing the safety from KCordell's thread: http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=184857&page=1

Jose:

When does the tab beside the wing safety rise and is there stamped "nes" under the lower wing? And there looks to be some interesting mark on the tubes just forward of the flats, that is if if isn't a mesh of scratches.





Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Re. cutaway. I had Tesco double 16G circa 1928 and locks design was a bit different. First of all firing pins were thick and long inside the action and when wing safety turns accentric wheel pushes both hammers a bit back from firing pins. Flat spring, that looks like two points fork been placed right to the trigger plate by one screw bolt.
No NES signs was on mine.

Raimey:

Thank you for share your knowledge regard this gun maker.

About the NES word in the bottom of the safety, NO, there is no such word (or any other) in that area.

I am sorry but I do not understand well your last question: do you want that I take a better picture of the barrel flats to see the marks?

My friend, the owner, wants to use the shotgun (basically for quail hunting) so he is adapting a detechable comb rising and increasing the lenght of pull (without altering the shotgun !!) apropiate for his dimensions.
The other "big problem" is the extrafull chokes in both barrels, do you think that cutting those chokes (well done with a reamer) is a "sin" in such an antique an odd shotgun?

Regards,