doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com book on CCHCCH Book

If you�re looking for a book on the step by step process on how to CCH firearm actions, don�t think one exists., although, there are lots of good books on the case hardening of steels, I�ve got a good dozen in my library. Most are over 100 years old.

Case hardening firearms follows the same rules as case hardening other low carbon steel components, if you know the type of steel, depth of case to be achieved there are lots of charts out there. The key for most gun folks is of course getting the right colors, and that takes practice�and lots of it.

Kensal Rise brought up some interesting points, a few I would like to address:

� FACT: Any gun frame that is potentially subject to this treatment is probably over 100 years old, or close to it. Thus, without expensive professional analysis, the steel composition is unknown.

Reality: If the steel was originally case hardened then one can b pretty well assured that it was �Case Hardening Steel� i.e.�low carbon. Researching turn of the century steels, it�s pretty easy to determine what the steel composition was. Additionally I have taken a few firearm frames and had the Metallurgical Testing done. Yes it�s expensive� but it�s good confirmation.

FACT: The parts in question have been subjected to a similar treatment before. However, the precise details of that process are unknown.

FACT: It is totally unknown how much carbon was infused into the steel surface by the original color case process because that process is a cipher.

Reality: We know the process, it�s only �a cipher� if you don�t know what going on. Very much like bluing, for the uninformed, it may seem like black magic, but for the folks that do it and understand it it�s not a huge mystery. Steels to be re-cased need to be properly prepared..Ie. .annealed. Annealing will help diffuse the carbon into the steel, as well a providing other benefits.
V/R

Mike

JMO, but I think we've come a ways from the days of plunging a red hot sword into a virgin slave to caseharden it...as well as understanding the mechanism which hardens the steel.

Casehardening is not a mysterious process. However, the particular techniques by which 100 yr old guns were casehardened is somewhat less than desireable from a repeatability/reliability veiwpoint. That's why the millions of pounds of steels that get casehardened today don't use charcoal packing and water quenching by a person dumping it all out in an air atmosphere. Still, casehardening in the broader industrial applications, is still accomplished thru the same physical changes in the steel, in the same basic manner of elevating the temperature of the steel in a supersaturated carbon environment until carbon penetrates and is absorbed pretty much to the practical limits, then it is quenched.

There is some risk of over-carburizing from extended saturation in the carbon environment, which can lead to a brittle martensite on the surface and undesireable stresses in the surface layer. I think the cracked frames may have been partly due to this problem. But I think this risk is relatively low if the standard saturation times/temps are adhered to.

sal: beg pardon. it did seem to me that you are advocating novice experimentation in the art of shotgun receiver recoloring. apparently you are not?

however, you still do appear foolish in your continued personal attacks on yours truly.

once again, i find it necessary to remind you that i do no gunsmithing of any kind. and certainly nothing having to do with the recoloring of shotgun receivers, which is best left to experts.

I think the information exchange is interesting and helpful. Business and historical preferences don't really advance or preserve the CCH techniques. It doesn't bother me if some backyard smith ruins his Purdey because he tried something he read on the internet. Since there're no practical reasons to do it, there may as well be enthusiast reasons.

I hope the techniques can be discussed and tried by hobbyist. Any reason to even touch a gun could be better off done by a paid expert, including just admiring it. If it's just about resale, once cash is in hand, does a seller care one bit if the new owner uses it to dig post holes.

edit to add that Brownells "Kinks" are another piece of the possibilities with trying CCH on your own.

So Mr. Good, are you not the famous Ed who has trated us all to the wonders of your acetylene torched improved guns on this forum?
If you are not one & the same person then I apologise profusely.

I apologize to bring this up again,and I know I said I wanted no part of this ...but I just dropped in, and figured someone out there would have come up with some kind of photgraphic proof of these catasrophic failure's both side's describe....anyone ?.

please someone in the know, come up with something to prove the other side wrong so no body here has to read this foolishness about cch & the %&$*torch again !!!!

newf: if you are looking for pictures of cracked shotgun receivers, resulting from incorrect heat treating, i doubt if you will find them...after all, who would take pictures of such disasters?

over the years i have seen a few...a fox and a parker come to mind. i was able to salvage the barrels and wood from both of those guns. my gunsmith was able to fit the barrels to other guns to make two barrel sets. and the wood was used to replace other wood damaged beyond repair. so, they were not a total loss...

as for a written description of the reheat treating process for shotgun receivers, tony tredwell's chapter on the subject is the best that i have seen...he breaks it down into four major processes:

annealing, coloring, hardening and tempering.

if you have not purchased the on line version of tony's fine book. please do so. it is money well spent. the above referenced chapter alone is worth much more than the cost of the whole book.