doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Jozsef Kirner, Jr. Pesten

Thanks Buchseman. That looks to be arranged mechanically speaking, just like a normal lock. So, to me, right now, I'm leaning that it was just a regular lock with a somewhat thicker plate to allow for the shaping.

So yes, a fashion thing.

Very nice rifle btw. Is the barrel swamped? What caliber is it?

Raimey,

Yes, "MB" are my initials. I bought this gun back when I was still in high school and I made the sear using one of my father's Bridgeport milling machines and a file not long afterward. It was my first German gun and one of my earliest gunsmithing experiences. When it was clear that my father was seriously hooked on German guns I gave the subject Jaeger rifle to him as a Christmas gift. Once my father had it in his possession he also did some restoration on the piece (replaced a few damaged screws, made the front sling hoop, and made a new ramrod tip). Many years later when we lost him to an incurable illness the gun was given back to me by my mother.

Shane,

The barrel is swamped a bit but right off I can't tell you by how much. The grooves measure .471".

Regards,

Buchseman

Raimey,
sorry, I don't know anything about those marks on the barrels.

The term "B�rschrohr" meant the whole rifle. In general I would say that target rifles had longer and heavier barrels, more massive stocks and probablly some form of peep sights.
No idea regarding any differences in caliber and form of rifling.

B�rschrohr (or Pirsch- or Birsch ...) is an old word and was probably already used for wheellock guns. It is not common today, nor back in say 1900.
So talking about the different development of hunting and target rifles would be subject of a thick book, and way beyond my knowledge.

fuhrmann

Thanks for the effort fuhrmann.

While looking in Jozsef Kirner's direction I stumbled onto Alfred Dzikowski we Lwowie(Lemberg/Lviv/Lwow) C.I.K. Nadworny Dostawca of Karl Ludwig Street I or Alfred Dzikowski(rusznikarz Lw�w)Cesarsko-Kr�lewski Nadworny Dostawca of Lemberg being of Polish descent.



Like many, or all, of the other k.u.k. suppliers, he is purported to have been a whale of a mechanic and also peddled edged weapons. The concern's adverts and listing are common from circa 1880 forward and with the Cesarsko-Kr�lewski Nadworny Dostawca dubbing, I would venture a guess he was active about mid 19th century and also had a son with same name. His home was No. 8 on the corner of Brajerowska(Lepkiego) Street & ??, where either many mounted trophies adorned the walls or the exterior facade was similar, or both.




Back right is Alfred Dzikowski, who I guess to be a Junior. To his left is Zdzislaw Dzikowski, possibly the owner of the firm by 1908. Image is from a late 1902 wedding in Vienna of his niece or somesimilar relation.


Dr. Zdzislaw Dzikowski owner/kupiec broni palnej


later Dzikowski firearm/bron palna/waffen h�ndler

Seems the shop closed right after WWI, possibly in 1921, and a former apprentice who aspired to the rank of master(b�chsenmacher/rusznikarz) named Eustachy Dmytrach opened his shop.

from article by Piotr J. Bochynski.



Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Back to Jozsef Kirner, an interesting 1892 advert where he seems to be an Auguste Francotte agent as well as that of the Belmont Firearms & Gun Barrel Works(Bonehill?).




Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Below is some info, and some of the other info on b�chsenmacher/fegyverkov�cs/gunmaker/pu�kar/rusznikarz Alfred Dzikowski is from Piotr J. Bochynski of Poland who has penned a few articles, with his interest lying with Polish sporting weapons & ammo.

Anyway, Alfred Dzikowksi acquired/bought/took-over the firm "Magazyn Broni, perfumeryi i artykul�w toaletowych" of Bonifacy Stiller circa 1879. Alfred Dzikowksi for a time retained the previous name "Weapons Warehouse/Storage, perfumery and toilet articles". by 1882 Magazyn Broni, perfumeryi i artykul�w toaletowych was reduced to Magazyn Broni or Weapons Warehouse.

By 1885 the concern experienced a name change to "Fabryka i sklad broni" which for now I guess to be Factory & Warehouse of Sporting Weapons.

Then he added hunting haberdashery circa 1892 with the name reflecting the addition of hunting articles in
"Fabryka i gl�wny magazyn broni i przybor�w mysliwskich i lowieckich" or Factory and Sporting Weapons Warehouse along with articles/items for hunters and hunting.



Then in 1906 his son Dr. Zdzislaw Dzikowski takes the helm as Alfred Dzikowski expires at the age of 56.

Another name change occurred around 1908 with "Krajowa fabryka broni mysliwskiej" which seems to translate to National Hunting Weapons Factory but I think it implies something akin to k.u.k. and that he was a supplier to a royal court and would be something like C.i K. nadworny dostawca.

Then in 1911 the firm Alfred Dzikowksi was acquired by Galicyjska Sp�lka Mysliwska and the name reflected it in Krajowa Fabryka i Gl�wny Magazyn Broni firmy Galicyjska Sp�lka Mysliwska przedtem Alfred Dzikowski C.i K. nadworny dostawca, which was something of the likes of Royal Court Supplier and General Sporting Weapons Store previously Alfred Dzikowski royal court suplier( C.i K. nadworny dostawca). The firm existed to at least 1917/1918 or possible a bit later.

For any that speak Polish forgive the letter l and s as they would not post correctly: as in Gł�wny(Glowny) & Myśliwska(Mysliwsak).

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Looks as if Bonifacy Stiller was very successful as a sporting weapons merchant in Lviv, being born in 1823 and passing in 1884. Being quite the philanthropist he either invested in the Morshyn Medical Association, its spas or both. Then again he may have just been a regular to the Morshym spas.


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Kirner remekmuve(masterpiece)

M. Kir. Udvari or Magyarul Kir�lyi Udvari

Or Supplier to someone court.
I think this to be the German version -
k�niglich ung. hof b�chsenmacher & Waffenfabrikant


Kirner's royal court dubbing by Prince Rudolf may have been in 1871(possible 1869?).


Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=278719#Post278719

Just to cross reference Bob's latest Jozsef Kirner example.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Seems Karoly Kiszela of Pesten had some what of a pistol warehouse in the 1870s:


February 1870 advert.

There was also an Endre Kiszela who also was a gunsmith. I guess he was active prior to Karoly??

Lipot Foldes & Lojos Jozsef were also of Pesten and may have been gunsmiths early on.

Kind Regards,


Raimey
rse