doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com 500 BPE

I've never been able to come up with a suitable black powder load for my E. M. Reilley in 500 BPE. I've made several efforts but the loads either shot apart, most of them, or were all over the place. The rifle is a shooter as the smokeless loads with both hard cast and Hawk jacketed bullets will hold between 2 and 3 inches at 50 yards with the Hawk bullets sometimes beating that a bit....when I'm having a good vision day. I THINK I have it narrowed down to the bullet.

The rifle has Henry rifling. From what I've been able to gather the Henry rifing prefers paper patched bullets and I have not tried them.

I have a considerable background in shooting BPCR in Sharps, Ballards, RB's, the occasional Martini and a few I've probably forgotten. I think I have let my experience there bleed over into loading for this rifle. I have been using bullets cast 1-25 and I have come to believe that's too soft for the Henry rifling. The store bought cast bullets that came with the rifle are considerably harder.

Bullet weights have been 340-380 grs. The last load I tried was essentially from Grahme Wrights book, a duplex load, except that I dropped back on the SR-4756 to 10 grains and used a lighter bullet. If I remember correctly the BP charge was 110 grains. It was scattered at best.

Given the above info, and I hope it's adequate, if barely, does anyone have any suggestions or is there any agreement that the bullets are too soft? I'm not lazy....well, not much, but I've never had to paper patch before and really don't want to now. But, if I must to get a load, I suppose I must. Oh, as the number of rounds loaded for each load has been small, 6-8, and the accuracy was miserable I never ran any across my screens but I would think the last load, the duplex, would have enough velocity. Of course one never knows until the chronograph tells you. Thanks!!

Vic

In my Lyell 500 BPE damascus tubed DR I use his load with 72 grns Varget smokeless. A foam backer rod and a 440ish gr. bullet sized to .512. This brings both tube together but high at 50 yds. I've tried a 380 bullet w/o luck. I also have tried paper patching but a naked lubed bullet works great so why bother.
and LOTS of dacron
The Alex Henry 577/500 works just as well with the same set up but different powder

sharps4590

You didn't mention if it is a 3" or 3 1/4". I load both and use Barnes "original" 450 jacketed bullets with a case full of Goex 2ff or Pyrodex. The load has regulated in a H&H, Powell and Dougal.
In the 3 1/4" it chronographed at 1600 fps plus.

Darned if I didn't!! It's the 3 inch. I've tried Swiss, GOEX Ffg and Cartridge and Scheutzen and the lastly mentioned duplex load If my rifle is shooting apart with the 380 gr. bullet, isn't it likely to shoot even farther apart with the 440 grainer? 'Course one never knows til they try. I assume it's possible the heavier bullet would increase pressure and perhaps increasing velocity to bring the barrels together. I had pretty much convinced myself it was the Henry rifling and the softer cast bullets.

Mike, thank you for the data. I have a very good smokeless load, 60 grs. of IMR 3031 under the 380 gr. hard cast bullet and foam filler. As with you, the GG bullet worked so well with the smokeless load I didn't even try patching. I'm truly desirious of a BP load for the rifle as it pre-dates smokeless.

The speed of the bullet is what causes wide patterns or crossing patterns. If they are shooting wide then you need to speed it up.
If the barrels are crossing they need to be slowed down.


The NFB loads are less pressure than black and gentler to these old pipes so I prefer them for this reason alone.

I understand that. With a full case of black, any mentioned above, and a 380 gr. bullet they're shooting apart. It seems the same, or close to, powder charge and a heavier bullet would shoot even slower, no?

Have you tried a different brand of powder? I assume you're using FFG?
Next step is to use a lighter bullet IMO. That'd speed it up. 380 is too slow so try a 350ish then something lighter. What are they sized to? .512 is what I have mine set at. I've slugged the bores and they are right at .510 on mine.

sharps4590,
Remember that the original .500 3" Nitro for Black cartridges were constructed with Cordite and either 340 OR 440 grain bullets. Obviously, both would regulate. Try the Barnes 450s - I'll bet they solve your problem. The jackets are very soft and easy on barrels.

Hawk also builds a soft jacketed bullet and of course there are the 440grn BPE Woodies.

It would be easier to list the black powders I haven't tried. In a previous post I stated I tried Swiss, GOEX Ffg, GOEX Cartridge, Scheutzen and the duplex load under Ffg Scheutzen. My sizing die is .512. It's been so long since I slugged the bores I don't recall but if I bought a .512 die I'm betting they either are or are very close to .510. I have a couple boxes of Hawk bullets, 380 gr. I believe, except those I've loaded and fired, and they group incredibly well over the smokeless load. I've used Hawk bullets in 3-4 old rifles and always had success with them, good bullets! I do recall reading in Wrights book that the nitro for black load was a 440 gr. bullet. That I haven't tried yet. I have tried 340 gr. cast bullets in an attempt to bring the barrels together.

No one has yet said anything about my question regarding alloy, is the 25-1 too soft for Henry rifling?