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Forums10
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Apr 27th, 2024
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 4
Boxlock
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OP
Boxlock
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 4 |
Hi all! My name is Valentin, I live in Austria and on my search for information on my gun, I was redirected to this forum. To describe the shotgun with a few words: It is a 19th century, pinfire, double damascus steel barrel shotgun. 16ga. bore. The hammers are blued, the barrels are browned. On top, between the barrels, it reads "Gastinne Renette arq. de l'Empereur a Paris. Brevet Westley Richards". Brevet Westley Richards is French for "Westley Richards patented". the gun seems to be in very good, untouched condition. Below, a few pictures. I am interested in any information on this gun and an estimated value. Any help appreciated.           Thanks, Valentin
Last edited by Valentin; 04/17/12 01:39 PM.
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Boxlock
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Welcome Valentin. Looks to be an early Westley Richard's toplever design. Is there an APUN or use number associated with the Brevete stamp? Also could you post an image of the Brevete stamp as well as the underside of the tubeset where there might be a "Crown" over "GR" or possibly some Belgian proofmarks. Last is there a crossbolt thru the doll's head extension?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
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I believe the British patent number for the Westley Richard's toplever is #1572 of 1871. Your GR would have been manufactured a bit after that. Here's a similar Westley Richards 12 bore listed for 1150(pounds sterling): http://www.ariantrading.com/featured/12b...otgun-ref-a966/   I'm not sure if that crab-joint has a patent or not. Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Boxlock
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Thank you for your reply, Raimey. There is no number associated with the Brevet stamp. There is no crossbolt thru the doll's head extension. At the underside of the tubesets there are two serial numbers, the GR with crown and something that could be a firing proof. The eagle of the proofmark looks like the Austrian eagle of that period.    Valentin
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Valentin: Thanks for the effort and it is possible if you tap out the crosspin holding the forend providing full view of the marks, we might could solve the puzzle. Note the cut-out in the doll's head extension which mates with the Westley Richard's crossbolt, or bolting mechanism(not the same as the Greener Crossbolt). Also either the "Crown" over "GR" is a control stamp or notes that Gastinne-Renette Arq. made the tubes/knitted the tubeset. From the snippet view we have, you are correct and in 1923 there was some proof effort in Austria. The Arq. is arquebusier, thanks to Mr. Brown and other French firearms merchants were sourced by courts: http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post253663The French firearms merchants sourced components or sporting weapons from their British counterparts. Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,784 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
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Interesting article from 1867/1868 suggesting that Lancaster acquired the firing pin extraction technology was acquired from M. Renette and also that by the 1867 Paris Exhibit that GR had adopted the Westley Richards breech loader technology(page 194): http://books.google.com/books?id=SR8-AAA...ris&f=falseKind Regards, Raimey rse
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Boxlock
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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The large "J" holds some secrets as to the mechanic who thru this example displayed his talent. I think the 32 might just be the bore and the construction of the sporting arm was initiated prior to 1868. With the 17.5mm diameter stamps, I'd first say it passed proof in Paris post 1868 and that either the "Crown" over the Cross/shield or the "Crown" over "GR" to note that the longarm experienced proof. But it is possible that the diameter stamps were applied during the 1923 black powder proof and I don't see a foreign tube stamp. Neat that in 1923 the Austrian facility would still proof pinfire. I guess they were still plentiful. So if the "32" notes the bore diameter and it was began earlier than 1868, I wonder if Westley Richards had some experimental type of toplever design that they passed on to GR? Prior to 1868 the French used an odd plug gauge diameter stamp based on the French pound. Mr. Hallquist might be able to authenticate it, but I wonder if the encircled WR is a stamp of approval by the Westley Richards firm at a satellite APUN or permission use station. During this time, each Paris gunmaking concern had to self police and see that their wares experienced proof, which each concern having their own mark/stamp. All in all a neat puzzle. I forgot to note that the "Crown" over "GR" just may be a follow up to an earlier "Crown" over "A.R" for Albert Renette in 1812.
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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