doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com German Double. E. Goldmann in Erfurt

I picked up this German double rifle about 15 years ago. It was my first double rifle and is chambered in 43 Mauser, E. Goldmann in Erfurt builder. I was told it was from the late 1870's or early 1880's and have no reason to doubt that. If anyone can say otherwise I would be pleased to know.

As it was my first double I received quite an education about regulating double rifles with the load. I found precious little info on the cartridge and got it regulated by reading Grahme Wright's book on double rifles and going through a lot of powder and lead. Final load was 63 grs. of Ffg over 5 grs. SR 4759 under a 340 grain Lyman bullet cast 25-1...I forget the number and am too lazy to go dig out the mold. I also bought an RCBS mold that throws a bullet of around 380 grs. from the same alloy but was uncomfortable with the recoil generated. Not for me, for the rifle, so I stayed with the lighter bullet. From what I learned later about the 43 Mauser I was evidently quite fortunate in bore size. Bullets sized to .446 work quite well. The bores are a little washy but even so my final loaded printed 2 1/2 to 3 inches at 50 yards and directly beneath the front bead. Only took about 6 months to get it there....lol!! But what fun and what an education on double rifles and their regulation. I apologize for only the three pictures but that's all I have at the moment. I still haven't been to town to get a new camera...







In the last picture the German double is on the bottom. Top rifle is an E. M. Reilley in 500 BPE...and will shoot 2 inches or under at 50 yards.

sharps4590,

That's a very nice ornate double rifle you have there. Yep, you have to be raising some eyebrows in the fields of MO. Raimey, Axel, and a few others will probably be able to help you with more information about the guns origins and other details when you are able to post more pictures. You did yourself well by buying Graeme Wright�s book, a must for any double rifle shooter.

Regards,

Buchseman

sharps4590,

In response to your question about my Sauer's chambering (German & Austrian Sporting Guns), I have a Model 32 chambered for the .43 Mauser as well; it�s proofed "Nitro" using an 18 gr (278 grain) K.m.G. (Kupfer Mantel Geschoss - Copper Jacketed Bullet). The "Henry" style bore and groove combination is smaller than yours as it shoots a .439" (.43 Spanish) bullet. I'm starting off using 300 gr Hawk bullets as that is what the guy I bought it from was using. I hope to get out relatively soon to see how it does.

Buchseman

I forgot about the Hawk bullets I bought!! I bought the .446 and they would shade the cast bullets by a bit. Good bullets, I like them. I have quite a few for the 500 BPE and it likes them also.

A couple issues ago there was a pretty good write-up in the DGJ about the 43 Mauser. The author asked for others experience with the cartridge and I was going to write him but never did. Evidently the bore diameter was all over the place for that cartridge.

I see my top two pictures are the same. It's been a few years since I took them and I thought it was right and left side. Chalk it up to turned calander pages....lol!

The Hawks are really easy on the old guns. I don't know right off what the hardness spec is but they do seem to be softer than many others.

That article in DGJ that you're referring to, I believe, is the one written by Jeff Munnell. If I'm recalling correctly he included pictures of one of his early hammer double rifles that is quite a bit like yours. Jeff is a very experienced hand-loader and as you probably noticed, an entertaining writer. The .43 Mauser is all over the place when it comes to bore and groove diameters with most seemingly running on the higher end of the spectrum.

If I remember correctly the Hawks go 25 BHN. Seems I remember reading that they are annealed dead soft. If I didn't cast they would see use in all my old rifles.

I'm pretty sure there was a picture of at least one German double in that article. I didn't recall the author's name but I expect you're right. I did enjoy it because you just don't see much written on the 43 Mauser. It's really a good ol' cartridge once a person gets it shooting accurately....which can make for pulled hair and profane language.

also have a sauer hammer dr [1893] the bore dia. is .430. it is also henry rifled.

Sharps, having seen that style trigger guard on several guns, can you educate me on any special function of the shape other than stylistic embellishment? Just curious.

sharps4590,

What exactly are you doing again with your load for your .43 Mauser double? I read the 63 grains of FFg over 5 grains of IMR SR 4759 and it flew over my head. Are they paper patched? Have you tried any "Nitro for Black" loads as yet? Have you launched any of them through a chronograph? If so, what kind of velocities did you get?

Ross Seyfried noted a smokeless load of his was 33 and 34 grains IMR-4198 with 8 grains of Dacron filler. He reportedly realized 1.5" - 2.5" inch groups for 5 shots at 100 yards and 1300 - 1425 FPS ... out of a Model 71 Mauser.

A favorite double rifle load of a friend of mine, using a 390 gr lead bullet, is 29.5 grains of IMR-4227 with a Styrofoam �Peanut� filler for an average MV of 1446 FPS. He also used Ross Seyfried's 34 grain IMR-4198 load but found that it wasn't as accurate as the IMR-4227 recipe.

Every double rifle is different of course but the aforementioned loads are what I have taken into consideration for my upcoming challenge.

Buchseman

steve, I'm sorry that I know of no other reason than "fashion" for that style of trigger guard. Maybe for gloved hands? I always thought they were rather ugly but it's grown on me and I like them now. From what little I know that style is always a sign of Germanic heritage.

Busche, it's a duplex load. I led with the 5 grs. of SR4759, (not IMR), and drop-tubed the Ffg. topped off by a .025 card wad, (tablet backing). I've used GOEX CTG., regular GOEX and Scheutzen and all have the printed the same, I assume because of the duplex load. It also shoots very clean, no doubt because of the small charge of smokeless. The bullet is a grease groove Lyman # 446110 lubed with SPG. I know I chronoed that load, and others, but I seem to have misplaced my records in one of 3 moves during the last 12 years. I'm just certain they ran between 1350 and 1400 but things are a mite foggy. I never tried any smokeless for black loads as I had no data at the time. Your double is a lot newer than mine and nitro proofed. I hope and would think your loading and regulation will be a lot easier than mine was. Your rifle just HAS to shoot!!!! What a beauty.

I really like the RCBS grease groove bullet of about 380 grs., it has a nice, wide meplat, but I couldn't get it close to regulation and it really shook the old rifle. Matter of fact, that's a loaded 43 Mauser cartridge sticking out from under the rifle near the forearm lever and the Lyman bullet.