doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Woodward Restoration

Kid, Buzz, Martin, etc. - will you help me understand your aversion?

Is it:

A) I had a bad experience with sleeved barrels breaking/exploding in the past

B) I want my guns to appreciate in value and sleeved guns don't do that

C) I think the seam is unsightly

d) I just don't like 'em and I can't really explain why

There's no right/wrong answer and I'm in no way criticizing - I'm just wondering.

Dig - I know every instance is different, but can you give a semi-generalized factor on cost?

Say, you have a great lock and stock - you just need barrels. Are we talking new barrels are twice the price of a high quality sleeveing? Ten times the cost?

I think with it being a non-ejector to start with then the logical way would be to go with the re-sleeving. It would make a nice shootable gun at a sensible price. Re-barrelling would be the way to go perhaps if it was an ejector model. Got to have 29 inch barrels Dig; it's a Woodward thing! Lagopus.....

hello hammerguy,
i have no real mechanical bad experience with sleeved barrels.(i did have a gun sleeved many years age and was disappointed/disgusted."you wont see the join")the value aspect is of no concern to me.the seam is unsightly(to me).
the reason for my dislke..revulsion at the thought i awake one day and i own a sleeved gun.explanation .no.
just my view and its highly unlikely to change,similar to political views being almost unmovable.i have said earlier however that i look forward to viewing a sleeved gun re digs explanation.therfore never say never
cheers

hello lagopus,
if the woodward in the link provided by owd(for sale by retailer) is used as a reference price,what would be a sensible price for sleeved non ejector,re stocked.
curious.
cheers

My aversion to them is simple: they're not original.

I like guns that are original. I've learned from experience that they hold their value and appreciate. I believe you should always buy the best "all original" gun you can afford, even if the gun has little color case hardening and blueing left.

Something else to consider: When this Woodward is "restored", how much of it will be by Woodward?

The bbls won't be by Woodward, the stock won't be by Woodward, and the finish won't be by Woodward. So is it still really a Woodward?

Of course, many people disagree with me...

OWD

I find this thread fascinating as it amply demonstrates the two extremes of the sleeving debate: those who wouldn't p*** on a sleeved gun if it was on fire and those who genuinely don't have a problem with them.
I shoot a lot of sleeved guns and I sell a lot of them and I really don't see what puts people off properly done, TIG sleeved guns aesthetically. I would depart a little from Dig in that I am afraid that the joint is always visible if only as a slight greying of the area of the TIG weld but, hey, perhaps I have an over active imagination.
Interestingly, in my experience this grey area becomes less visible with age. I had my 'falling in ditches' Blanch Backaction SLE TIG sleeved some 12 years ago and the joint IS pretty invisible unless I get some very strong light on it.
This is the very opposite of most soft solder sleeving which does tend to become more obvious with age. I suspect this is caused by the soldering flux bleeding out of the joint over time and doing what flux does and fading the oxide blacking.
I can understand the argument about value but I'm with Dig on this, you invest a lot more is a original barrelled gun and then pray that someone is going to value it higher than you when you want to sell it. And worry about using it in the meantime!
Really good sleeving of a gun costs about 10-25% of what it costs to re-barrel (depending on how illustrious a 'maker) and yet devalues the gun by perhaps a third.
You can always re-barrel a sleeved gun and in the meantime you get to use and (forgive me) abuse it with a clear conscience!
And forgive my ignorance, but isn't Woodward defunct? Purdey I think hold the rights to the name so one would have to ask them to re-barrel it. Now we are talking telephone numbers and all for a SLNE? And would it have been rebarreled by the 'maker in the eyes of a purist? I would feel obliged to catalogue it as 're-barrelled by Purdey'. And given their attitude to rank and file, I don't consider that much of an accolade!

The "economics" of each gun is different, so it may not be fair to compare the Lovels' Woodward to Digs' situation, because no one knows what it cost to acquire and rebarrel the Lovels' Woodward. It is a lot easier to justify rebarreling an inhereited gun than a purchased one, for instance.

Dig - glad to see you thinking outside the box. I appreciate the opinions expressed here about sleeved barrels, but if it is not economic to rebarrel the gun, better that it is nicely resleeved and continue its already lengthy career than be consigned to a mantlepiece (IMHO).

Thanks for that. Great information.

Of course, I'm only interested in damascus guns - so it's information wasted on me. :-)

hello toby,
thank you for the honesty re"the joint is always visible".
as i have previously stated on this forum on numerous occasions i fully accept that there is a place for sleeving and most people do not object.not for me however. not a lot more to say from me really.
cheers
mrwmartin