doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com So-Called J. Manton - ID Help (Photo heavy)

We haven't seen the flats and area around the forend hanger, but although the stamps could be fake, the below is the Birmingham view mark of Crown over Crossed Scepters over V. And after viewing an old Thomas Bland I have the stamps are in the correct location and orientation. Can't make a Perron out of the I.



Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Gentlemen,
It would really be nice to view more proof marks from the barrel flats area. After taking a closer look at the engraving I can see why you have your doubts, at this point I do too. As far as the metal to metal and wood to metal fit, particularly the wood to metal fit there are a number of factors that could be acting on that, such as an early ham-handed restoration job and perhaps there's rust blooms on the back side of the locks adding unwanted thickness where the metal meets the wood. For that matter the wood may have shrunken badly. Still, the engravings not Manton-worthy for sure. I admit I have a weakness for back action lock hammer guns and still feel it could be turned into a nice field gun, that is if the barrels are not too deeply pitted inside or too thin.
Steve

There are no Belgian proof marks shown. That line is not a Perron. There is a Birmingham proof shown. Who the maker was, I do not know.

Pete

Birmingham proof marks only indicate that it was prepared for sale in the UK. It is not an indication of origin or quality. This is a very poor quality gun. Even the lowest quality Birmingham trade guns generally exceeded this quality. One comment from Brown is on interest regarding John Manton. By 1834, GH Manton and Gildon Manton owned the firm. Over the next 20 years 'the majority of guns were marked 'Manton' and were made up in Birmingham and proved there. They were not normally given serial numbers and a number were exported to the USA'. The firm ceased trading in 1878.

It could be a very cheap Birmingham export gun.

Guys, I sent the poster over here from Calguns because the gun puzzled me, too (not hard to do). Appeared to be a farmer-grade JABC but no Belgian proofs that I could decipher. Guess I agree that it is a British export gun using the "expired" Manton name.

One of his questions on the other board was basically what to do with it. Was advised the usual: don't shoot it until checked by a competent gunsmith who KNOWS Damascus barrels, Guage Mates, etc. And if it's off-face or has heavily pitted bores, hang it on the wall.

Some posters on the other board advised filing off the tips of the firing pins to de-activate it if it couldn't be returned to shooter status. What do you think of that?

Personally I hate destroying ANY old part because, hey, you never know what the next guy will need. If this gun is actually used for a decoration, just how likely is it that it would chamber a modern 10 guage shell--the 3 1/2" Magnums generally available to the public, not a "short 10" which are much harder for the average guy to find?

Oh I don't plan to demill it or shoot it, ever.

Right now it's in a silicone impregnated gun sock in a dry location, it's been there for a couple years now.

Worst case scenario I'll wall hang it with it's patina and firing pins removed.


As for a photo of the flats - That'll wait a bit, I don't have the time to grab it from the old safe spot right now.

We could start by noting that the gun in question is a center-fire cartridge gun that breaks open. Neither of the original Manton brothers, Joseph or John, built such guns.

There were lots of guns produced, mostly at lower price-points, marked J. Manton. Personally, I am not convinced that such guns were so-marked to convince a nineteenth-century buyer that he was getting "best" London gun for a few pounds. It could just as likely be along the lines of Pontiac naming their cars "Le Mans" and "Grand Prix". Free marketing ride, sure, but nobody buying a Le Mans seriously thought it was a race car. GM didn't even have a race program.

If the barrels are stout enough it would be fun to shoot. One could purchase a set of 10-12 Gauge-mates and shoot 12 gauge Wnchester AA Low recoil/noise ammo through it.



I modified these (with thanks to homeless jOe) by grinding the lip away at the split so that I could pull the shell out with my fingernail, leaving the Gauge-mate in the chamber.

Steve

According to Boothroyd the buisness of Manton was taken over by WR Wallis .John Wallis contiued the buisness into the 20C. They had guns made in Birmingham bearing the Manton name . My guess is that it is a gun made and sold as a Manton. I have seen several guns of this quality signed "Manton" . Buy the look of it a wall hanger is all it is .