doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Double Rifles, Paradox Guns & Gauge Rifles @ doublegunshop.com Paradox gun info

Hello all,

I am extremely interested in paradox guns. I have always been interested in vintage sporting rifles, and these are fascinating to me. I would like to end up purchasing an old 10 or 12 bore, preferably underlever and preferably 10 bore. Around how much would a 10 or 12 bore underlever paradox gun be? Could one be found for around $5k? I know the old H&H paradox guns can go for quite a bit, but could one be found any cheaper? Maybe from another maker?

Thanks,
Charlie

There is a world of difference between a 12 bore Holland paradox and a 10 bore Holland paradox. An 8 dram 10 bore gun is a no joke elephant gun. Most Holland 12 paradoxes are top lever and you would probably pay a premium for an underlever 12 Holland if you could even find one. There were many other makers of ball and shotguns. The Fosebury style rifled choke guns are at the top in my opinion. You might find a rifled choke non Holland 12 bore gun for under 10k. I would doubt you could find a serious 10 bore gun for under 10K. If you have an interest you will want to buy Roger Lake's book on the Holland paradox.
www.Paradox-Horsley.com

I will definitely will have to get the book. I know there is a big difference between a 10 bore and a 12 bore. I am actually looking for a 10 bore because I want an "elephant gun." I was originally looking for an 8 bore, but it would take me way to long to save up 25k+. I have seen 10 bore double rifles that had sold at auction for under 15k, and wasn't sure about paradox guns, so that is why I asked what the normal price ranges were. Didn't know if they were cheaper then an actual bore rifle or not, sounds like they aren't. Thanks very much for the info, and the book reference.

Charlie

10 bores; rifles or paradoxes are a rare configuration 15k +or- would seem about right depending on the individual gun. Holland guns plus 20k. Not all 10's were created equal. You'll be looking for an 8 dram or more 13lb gun or a tad heavier.

I'd search for one of the J. Novotny drillings with at least one of the tubes being paradox: http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=20443&an=0&page=23&vc=1 .

If you aren't a member you can't view the site. I can post images if anyone has an interest.

Also Geno had posted a J. Novotny with a single paradox tube:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbt...true#Post217695





Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The 12x12x 400/350 is for sale at Westley Richards for 25k. The gun was recently used to hunt lion and elephant. There is some speculation as to the 12 bore rifled choke tubes being regulated for the Super Magnum Explora cartridge.

Nothing wrong with a 20 but it is more than a world different than a 10.

Nice update and interesting that it is for-sale again: http://www.westleyrichards.com/gun/used_guns_2_product.php?id=26439

Although it is possible that it was regulated for the Explora, I find it somewhat difficult to believe. Mainly because Westley didn't have any part in this as J. Novotny sourced the J�gers or Franz J�ger for this sporting weapon.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The chambers are 2 3/4" and purported to be original. If so, it would probably have been regulated to one of the magnum paradox loadings of the day as all standard loads were 2 1/2". Would Westley have "licensed" the use of the new proprietary Super Magnum cartridge? If not what load was it built for, it weighs 10lbs?

Not sure on the ammo and I would like to query Axel, Mike Ford and Jani to see if they have any insight. The client may have ordered the paradox & rifle calibre to his whims. From what little I know about it the Westley Richards's Super Magnum Explora was developed in 1909, a couple years after the Novotny drilling was completed. Now this sporting arm was at Hallowell & Company before the lion exercise, correct? I think that the following marks from 1907, probably with a later, post 1912 effort on the scattergun tubes for some Explora variant???, are those of the sporting weapon of question:



I agree with the 2004 info that the chambers were close to 2 5/8's but for now I don't see anything indicating 70mm chambers. But with the later Nitro proof effort there could be a 70mm on the J�ger ejector faces. Also it could be slightly longer chambers than 65mm + 2.5mm+/_ and long forcing cones.



Novotny & Schiwy seem to have cross sourcing efforts or maybe it was a one way street from J. Novotny to Ludwig Schiwy( F.W. Vandrey & Company concern ) then on to talented pool of mechanics in Suhl. Anyway the hunt club that L. Schiwy was a member of in Berlin had some of the elite so maybe J. Novotny had some clients there.

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=160489&page=2

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

I really don't have any first hand knowledge on the Nowatny but was told the original description was in error as to chamber length and cartridge designation. Sherman Bell does a write up on this gun in the Autumn 2007 DGJ. It would seem at 25k asking price it is out of the OP's budget.