doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Faking English Guns

Hi all, I ran across this one:

http://www.gunsinternational.com/detail.cfm?id=100225136

It got me thinking of how many Brit guns have been faked thru the years.

So.....how many have any of you ran across a fake Brit gun? Any good stories?

I will give credit to Steve, he's honest about this one. I've delt with him in the past and could not be happier with the results.

All the best!

Greg

I would think that my friend Steve would be familiar with the North Carolina, Canada, Boswell connection. I never cared much for the future appreciation of the Spanish and Canadian Boswells, but fake? Not hardly. Actually the pictured gun may be something else entirely, judging by its appearance. I once inspected a lovely Purdey that was "not a Purdey". I have no idea where it was made since it had all proper British proof marks, at least in my opinion.

Hi Greg,

faking English guns has a long "tradition". See for example W. W. Greener's book of 1910 "The gun and its development" pages 415/16:

http://www.archive.org/stream/gunitsdevelopmen00greerich#page/414/mode/2up

In older editions of his book (e. g. of 1892) the description of faked English guns is the same.

Regards

Martin

Dont forget the whole Boswell saga from the early 80's ,when Boswell was set up in Canada . There were I understand a lot of Spanish actions finished with the Boswell name.The stories I have heard but I wont repeat as they are hearsay and I have no evidence other than that.I have seen other Italian as well as Spanish guns finished in th UK bearing the names of "revived" old companies . A few, as would appear the Boswell in question, have used cheap basic actions of low quality and are in my opinion an insult to the name they bare . After the Boswell affair it must have been quite simple to make a few guns with that name and sell them . Harder to fake a gun with a good or current name and lets be honest if you saw a very nearly new gun signed "Beesley" you would question it authenticity.

Not so much faking as outright lieing about them! I just recently purchased a gun from a person that is well known aroud places and was told at time of purchase and through the ad that the gun had a certain length of barrels. Well I purchased the gun and took it home and wiped it down and put it away in the safe,
A couple of weeks latter got it out and thought to measure the barrels and found them a different length than advertised. Tried to contact the seller and he would not respond. Finnaly got him to respond and he said "well most dealer just round up the measuremants". Well he is not a dealer and his advertisment was an outright lie. Then he started critisizing me! Contacted the well know site and reported him. They agreed the ad was not correct as placed. Never heard another word.

Hi all, thanks for the great comments. I think I should have worded my post in a different way. I'm aware of some Brit Makers (Roberts, & Boswell etc) who have had actions and bbls made in Spain and elsewhere and then finished in the UK.

What I should have said is how many out and out fakes have you seen?

Sorry for the miswording.

All the best!

Greg

Interesting timing for this post. I just got a message last night from a gunsmith friend inquiring about the likelihood of a faked Greener. Don't have any details yet, but we will talk today.

First hand experience, a client brought in Purdey double rifle with 2 sets of barrels that he was going to buy. Handsome and interesting self-opening rifle with a Jones UL. The Purdey address was upside down on one set. He sent it back. I saw the rifle for sale at the Vintage Cup 2 months later.

Second hand story, a gent bought a vintage Purdey 20ga from a well-known dealer, sometime later he called Purdey for the history, they informed him that he was holding a fine Purdey 16ga.... speculation was that the gun was bought at auction with out-of-proof bbls and re-barreled with the faked 20ga tubes.

I imagine with the records available from many makers, that it's not as easy to pull off as it once was.

London gunmaker Frank Malin sought to transfer gunmaking to the Western Hemisphere. Initially, he took English craftsmen to Canada to make guns. His operation was capable of producing good work.. See, for instance, the "Prairie Rose" gun he built as a wedding gift for Prince Charles on behalf of the Province of Alberta. He and/or his associates apparently OWNED the Boswell name. Thus, his "Boswells" are no more counterfeit guns than are the guns sold by Chris Batha (the current owner of the Boswell name). I have copies of advertising literature offering guns under both the Boswell and Malin names.

Malin did not use "cheap" Spanish parts. He used Arrizabilaga parts. Today an Arriz. of the same vintage is worth more than a Malin and probably a Boswell of that vintage. Malin was a member of the London Company of Gunmakers, and at least the Malin I own is clearly marked with a Canadian address. If the gun in the ad is one made by Malin, I think it is a good buy at the price offered.

How different is the Ithaca Classic Doubles manufacturing than the Boswell activities? They had Italian components and did some final fitting, finishing and assembly in the U.S..

There are countless examples of multi-national manufacturing. My company makes airplanes that way.