doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Proof House in USA??

I also have seen the "VP" stamp on 21's.

Craig, one more time--and I'll go slowly, so please follow, because as I said we've been around this mulberry bush several times:

What we do not do in this country, but the Brits are required to do under their rules of proof, is REsubmit a gun to the proofhouse when it has any of various significant modifications. For example, 2 1/2" chambers lengthened to 2 3/4"; 2 3/4" lengthened to 3". I'm not worried about newly-manufactured guns, but rather about guns that are modified and then passed on to the next owner, without that subsequent owner being aware of the modification or its implications. Barrels can even be sleeved in this country, but the gun not so marked. That's the "standard" we don't meet . . . for maybe the umpteenth time.

YADA YADA YADA....

Thanks for walking me through it Larry. I'm pecking one finger at a time on the keyboard for my benefit. What happened to your category of 'potentially' unsafe guns.

You've done a bunch of equivocating. If a new car can be subject to recall or a UL stamped blender zap someone, why can't a new gun have a defect. Every time I've asked how you gonna make shade tree bubba admit he lengthened a chamber there was an umpteenth nonresponse.

I'm beating around the ole bush because the justification is a roving target. You want to protect the unsuspecting consumer by trusting the vultures will proof on the honor system, but it's ok with you because you can spot modifications.

Craig, all asked and answered. Not my problem if you don't like the answers. The system--requiring reproof for guns that undergo various types of modification, such as chamber lengthening--works well in the UK. Why wouldn't it work equally well here?

And you can make shade tree bubba follow the rules the same way we make car dealers follow the rules about not turning back the odometer. The problem is, right now we have too many "shade tree bubbas" punching chambers that should not be punched. Good idea, IMO, to reduce the likelihood of that happening to guns that should not be modified--and present more of a safety hazard after modification than they did before. Used to be lots of people didn't wear seat belts. Lots more of them wear them now. All of these are good things, IMO.

For the "Some-Teeneth" time we simply do not have the same situation here in the US as the UK has. The Brits are "Re-Proofing" guns which were previously proofed to known standards.

If the goal is to protect "Bubba" it has to be mandatory. Make whatever you feel like out of the British system in that it is "Run by the Gunmakers" it is never-the-less Mandatory. There are many guns around which do not need to be fired with modern SAAMI spec loads, "Both" original as well as modified. This does not prevent Bubba from going down to his local Mart & buying his shells there.

The "ONLY" way of accomplishing the stated goal is to require "EVERY" gun sold in the US to undergo proofing with SAAMI Spec shells, even unmodified guns as well as those guns previously proofed under CIP specs. Bubba is after all going to fire SAAMI Spec shells in them if he owns one.

PLEASE! Just don't open up a can of Worms that ends up crawling all over us.

PS; I also am typing one fingered & real slow, because I realize many don't READ real Fast!!

PPS; It is also noted the "Odometer Law" did absolutely nothing to restore those cars previously run back, I do not recall it being retro-active.

Not a like thing Larry, I'm attempting to show there are problems with the philosophy.

Take for instance my point about your equivocating. As has been umpteenth refried, some folks want 100% registration with annual renewal for all guns just because that's what we do for cars. Thanks for making us all the better. Bubba lengthened a chamber, but said I dunno it was already that way, just like a shoddy brake job doesn't prevent a car from having it's registration renewed.

It would take several hundred years for an American proof house to achieve the romanticism of reading proof marks on a hundred year old British best gun. If saami were down the road from me, I'd still send that special gun off to get the proper marks placed on it, if needed.

Well Miller, it's also pretty hard to "restore" a gun that's had 2 1/2" chambers lengthened to 2 3/4". But it is quite possible to reproof it for modern 2 3/4" loads.

Craig, where did I suggest that I want any kind of registration for guns? If you're going to challenge me on something, I think I've posted enough on this thread that you should be able to stick with something I said, not something I didn't say.

Here's my point: I believe the old saying about not being able to legislate morality. However, you can legislate (or enforce) behavior. People stop at red lights even when other cars aren't around because they've learned that a red light means stop, and a cop might write them a ticket if they don't. Many people wear seatbelts not because they want to, but because of "click it or ticket". Similarly, Bubba will stop punching chambers if gun owners realize that a gun with punched chambers has to be submitted for reproof in order to be sold--unless the owner of said gun is prepared to do that. And that's a good thing, both for the guns and for the gun owners. Only my opinion, however, and anyone else is certainly entitled to disagree. But I like the confidence level I get when I read British/European proofmarks and find that the gun matches what those proofmarks tell me.

Larry, I pretty much agree with you, if that's any consolation. I think Miller has some good points to make. It would be a little complicated to get Proof in America going. On the other hand, if we had a Proof House, American arms companies might be able to produce some lighter weight, well-balanced guns which most upland game hunters covet.

Sorry Larry, no big deal. I believe I snip out your actual words and form my opinion. I know what happens if I buy a new or used vehicle, I have to register it. As far as I know, that's the legal record in my area for the mileage on a vehicle.

You did give me a little chuckle though. "Bubba will stop punching chambers if gun owners realize that a gun with punched chambers has to be submitted for reproof". You didn't let on when the consumer became educated, but you did say the unsuspecting consumer needed potential protection.

Never a good idea to try to "snip" someone else's words and form your own opinion of what they're saying. The likely result is that you read not what the other guy is saying, but your erroneous, "snipped" interpretation of what he's saying. You have a right to your opinion, but not to modify my opinion. The existence of a proofhouse and requirement for reproof as a result of modification does not = registration. The tag on the mattress tells me not to remove it, but that does not lead to mattress registration.

A requirement for reproof following significant modification is all part of the process of consumer education. And yes, I see consumer education as a good thing--other than for the Bubbas who are trying to sell their modified guns, or sell unwise modification work. I suspect more than a few people here bought guns that had been modified, did not realize it, but then--maybe as a result of this BB--became aware of what they'd done. Some, like me, probably had chambers punched by Bubba before they knew better. Better to know better sooner.