doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Proof House in USA??

Brought it up a couple or three pages ago. hpwhite.com ballistic laboratory can proof your shotgun right here in the good old US of A. Isn't it an interesting dichotomy between the folks who know what's best for others and those who walk the walk.

Larry,

We've all seen or rather heard of the rare chamber failure. I ask who has witnessed one or had one brought into their shop. I'll certainly settle for an account from someone you know that blew one up.

My good friend "Bladesmith" mistakenly loaded PB for black powder. On his 4th shot with of 94 grains of PB in a lamanated barrered Remington double the chamber burst. He later had the remaining shells tested at around 24,000 PSI. That is the one and only chamber failure that anyone I know would swear to in court as to exactly what happened.

This is a good discussion even if our opinions differ.

Good and safe shooting to all,
Mark

No doubt chamber failures have occurred. However, I'll champion the most common (of the uncommon)"chamber failure" is a 20ga shell lodged in the forcing cone of a 12ga. It's an obstruction that will blow the chamber in spectacular fashion.

Today I called and talked to a gentleman at the H.P. White Laboratory. He informed me that for $600 they will, normally within a week, proof test a SxS.

I asked how their test compared to those of the Birmingham proof house and received no answer. He informed me that they do use SAAMI proof loads. Their personnel visually inspect a gun before the proof test and again afterward plus they use a "headspace" gauge for the final pass/fail gage.

They do not use any method to measure for permanent deformation other than their headspace gauge. From the man's description I visualized this to be an oversized representation of a cartridge. If it is able to be fully chambered then the gun will have excessive headspace. Of course, a shotshell headspaces via the rim of the shell. Maybe the headspace gauge referenced actually is slightly larget in diameter than the SAAMI maximum allowable for a chamber.

A good gunsmith could do that what this lab does.

Mark

There was a discussion on this before, but I believe the $600 fee from White Lab is more than it would cost to send it to England to be proofed, although you'd likely get it back quicker. The CIP superior proof is 19K +, which is very much in the SAAMI ballpark.

Mark, Greg Tag--who used to post here--was assembling data on Flues barrel/frame failures. Per an email I received from him, 13 years ago, he had 8 reports at that time. And that's only one model from one sxs maker, although there were a bunch of Flues guns made--and the general consensus is that the light 20's in particular are prone to frame failures when fired with loads for which they were not built.

I can't say any more at present, but I know of one barrel failure on a modern sxs from a well-regarded European maker. I did not see the damage to the gun, but I did see the damage to the shooter.

As for knowing what's best for others, I'm all for others knowing what's best for themselves--and not passing on potentially unsafe guns to others without full disclosure.

Larry,

We are much in agreement.

See you next year the at UP Shoot. Maybe we'll be squaded togetehr again. I'll shoot a 10 gauge of course!

Good shooting with you.

Mark

Mark: I want to thank you for checking this info with White Lab for us. $600 is cost prohibitive except for expensive guns IMHO plus it appears they only do cursory examination of proof. In other words, proofing by White's would be no more legitimate than that of the local gunsmith. Let's face reality. In order for proofing or re-proofing to be legitimate in the US it will require a standardized procedure that is reproducible and procedure that will satisfy requirements of certification in harmony with other legitimate proof houses. This, in my opinion, will require government intervention. With this in mind, the ultimate goal would be consumer safety and prevention of fraud.

What's a hand, an eye or even a life worth. I suspected there'd be complaints about the lab, heck give 'em a fair shake, they're doers. What if bubba gets his hands on a two hundred dollar pump gun, or god forbid, Larry thinks your gun is 'potentially unsafe'.

I can appreciate your concern. There is no safe gun and the real fraud is claiming there are other uses for guns besides killing people . Here's hoping you had a great Christmas, and have a Happy New Year.

What?

As a % of the total, I'm guessing there are more vehicles that kill people in this country than guns.