doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Proof House in USA??

There must be some form of consumer protection available in America that protects the citizen from potentially dangerous goods getting into the market place. That's all Proof is. When I have an explosion going off just inches from my face I like to think that the odds are well stacked in my favour. Please realise that the Proof laws here are administered largely by the gun trade, they set the standards not the government. In fact the first proof laws came in under Charles the first and he didn't care what government thought; he ended up losing his head in the end though. Then we did try being a Republic but that didn't last long as Oliver Cromwell started to get a bit power crazed and we went back to a system of Monarchy and Government combined.

Nialmac, the courts are separate to the Government here although laws are formed to some degree by government they then have to have checks made by our two tier system. The courts are answerable to the crown as are the military and police; in other words answerable to the people. A lot of our laws pre date the exsistance of government by several centuries.

No, I'll stick to having a proof house there to test my guns and ammunition for me. I just think that if you had some sort of voluntary scheme in place administered by your gun trade (not your government) then it would be used. I often see threads here in this forum about the expense of sending guns to the U.K. for proof testing so there must be some need out there. Think of the savings. Lagopus..... p.s. Run with the Fox; when mentioning those rag tags with squirrel rifles you forgot to mention the important part played by the French in that affair.

If a lot of guns were blowing up, I could see your point. But they aren't. So what you're buying with your proof laws is exposing your gun to unsafe pressures to prove it will take these unsafe pressures, which is no guarantee it will, after being stressed, continue to be safe. I don't see the logic behind that, but if you're happy with the false sense of confidence it gives you, so be it.

P.S. A lot of our laws also predate government my centuries: The Ten Commandments, for example.

I would suppose that the view process prior to proof gets rid of most that would blow up when they are rejected at that stage. No, there is no guarentee but they should be fine if the correct ammunition is used and it does seem to work. I still can't believe that you have no consumer protection legislation of any kind. Can you sell unroadworthy motor vehicles that are in a dangerous condition over there? Surely there is some sort of testing procedure.

Yes, the ten commandments are pretty early legislation that also pre date the United States of America. Don't go by every law in the Bible as I belive stoning to death is now considered unconstitutional. :-)

Well, America deceided to go its own way in 1776 and I suppose they haven't done too bad. If you don't want a Proof House then I won't force you to have one. I'd still like to know if you did have access to such a facility then who of you would use it? Hands up anyone. By the way, where is Smallbore on this one as he buys and sells a lot of guns and uses the Proof House quite a bit. Lagopus.....

lagopus, guns here are specifically exempt from consumer protection acts, simply because such legislation would lead to havoc. The anti-gunners would argue that such ''dangerous devices'' should never be allowed into the hands of sensible Americans.

Yes, it's perfectly legal to sell unroadworthy automobiles here in the US. But the vehicle wouldn't pass state inspections and couldn't get licensed, but there is no reason why they can't be bought and sold legally.

By the way, aren't the British proof houses supported by the trade and not by public revenue?

I can understand the need for a proof house in Medieval times, when barrels were made of iron, and there was basically a need to protect people from inferior manufacturers. However, proof is not really needed (IMO) for modern steel-barrels. And I own a couple of damascus barrel guns that have survived since the 19th Century, and I suppose they've been more than proofed by time itself.

If I remember my history correctly proof houses were established throughout Europe to restrict trade in firearms under the pretense of public safety. I believe England was the first established to restrict the import of cheaper Belgian firearms so public safety wasn't necessarily uptmost in the British gun trades minds.

I would doubt that in the case of Britain as at the time no gun laws exsited here at all and didn't until around the time of the First World War. I can understand a country being jelous of outside trade coming in and wanting to protect its own. When we started with Proof I don't think Belgium had a gun making industry as such. Other European Countries followed much later and a lot still have no testing proceedure. We fully accept guns from other Countries with recognised Proof Houses without further testing.

Another useful service by the Proof House here is that they will pressure check reloaded ammunition, both shotgun and metallic, for a small fee. Send 11 rounds, one of which is dismantled to check contents, and then the others tested and a report returned. Takes the guess work out of reloading jobs. Lagopus.....

Lagopus, I will say the Uk proof houses are strict, I had a custom made 6.5 x54 mannlicher made for me in the States over the last 2 years which I got a few weeks ago, for details see link below

http://www.chuckhawks.com/m-s_custom_rifle_hays.htm

However I got Hollands to check it for me before sending it for proof. The proof house will not accept for the reasons below,

Bolt will not go over the Go Gauge
Bore dia. 6.54mm, oversize by 0.06mm
Groove dia. 0.263" undersize by 0.003"

Now I�m not bothered, I don�t intend to sell it and it shoots 3 shot groups of 5/8" at 100 yds so I�m happy, I think there must be differences in bore and groove sizes in some countries compared to others (this rifle has a new barrel !) best, Mike

Gene, new guns made in America are, in fact, subjected to HIGHER pressures than are standard proof guns under CIP (British/European) proof laws. The only difference is that our guns are proofed by the manufacturers, adhering to our SAAMI proof standards. And that's been done for a very long time. I have an article from the American Rifleman in the 1930's, which shows the various designs of proof barrels used by many of the major American gun manufacturers.