doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Pre-WW1 16g ammo question...

What kinds/brands of ammo were available before the first World War for 16g shotguns?

Was this ammo in boxes?

I have an 1898 16g L.C. Smith 2E and I would like to find some period shells for it.

Thanks

OWD

That is a very early 16 ga. The bores would be .650, unless honed out, and the chambers would be 2 9/16". As for shells then, I'm sure if Researcher reads this he can tell you.

Certainly Eley, Kynoch and Joyce in Britain were making them then as I have several examples in my collection. Lagopus.....

Lots of links here to powder and shell advertisements
http://docs.google.com/View?id=dfg2hmx7_332g4c6sphw

1895 American Made Shotgun Shells Reviewed
April 13, 1895 Sporting Life
http://www.la84foundation.org/SportsLibrary/SportingLife/1895/VOL_25_NO_03/SL2503014.pdf

c. 1902 Peters

Cool. Thanks. So the search begins.

I'm guessing that a full box of pre-WW1 ammo is going to cost me more than the gun.

OWD

BTW: The gun is probably one of the first 16 gauges Smith made. The 28" damascus bbls are un-messed with and in great shape.

Ya betcha

W.R.A. Co., REM-UMC, Western, and Peters. Smaller outfits, like Robin Hood are out there. Decent, full boxes from the era you mention will be spendy.
Gun Broker is a great place to find them. Use their 'search' devices, save those searches, and check frequently. You can broaden your searches by using different forms of 16 gauge, such as: 16GA, 16 Gauge, 16 GA, etc. Sellers do not use standardized nomenclature when listing their goods. Sometimes a box shows up, and nobody bids on it. Other times, the bidding gets fierce.
Good luck. Cheers!

Here is a 1911-1916 box with nice labels. Unfortunately, and this is common, the 25 rounds are a mixture from other boxes. You can tell by the dished and flat bases on the brass.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=260406840

OWD, in retrospect (as usual!) I wish I had kept my 1923 Ideal with 28" and 32" barrels. The 32" barrels were marked for 3 inch chambers. Both sets, F and F.

I have a 12 gauge grade 1 extractor- early style- with the pins and the rotating disc in the barrel lug- 30" Twist barrels DT- I shoot RST 2.5" 7/8 oz. shells in it all day long- You are 100% right- you'll pay through the nose for older shorter paper hulls- and as I have 'gone that route' years ago- I found about 50% of those I bought would NOT fire- the firing pin dented the primers fine- but- NO Bang- No Boom--

Parker Bros. began offering 16-gauge guns around 1878 or 79. Remington Arms Co. didn't add 16-gauge doubles to their offerings until 1897, though a handful of earlier E.Remington & Sons 16-gauge doubles have been reported. It appears that Hunter Arms Co. added 16-gauge guns to their L.C. Smith offerings in 1898.

My earliest ammunition catalogue is a 1903 Union Metallic Cartridge Co. From that vintage on into the 1930s, the North American "standard" 16-gauge paper shell was put up in a 2 9/16 inch case. Longer 16-gauge shells, with more and better wadding, were offered in 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths.

A good place to score a box of pre-WW-I 16-gauge shells may be the currant Wards Auction --

https://www.wardscollectibles.com/viewcat.php?category=1

A nice box of period shells is a great "collector's" item to have with a gun, but I wouldn't have much faith at this late date that any even pre WW-II primers will go.

I have a box of 25 16ga Winchester Repeater Paper Shot Shells loaded with Smokeless Powder. Load is 2� Drams DuPont with 1oz #7� Ch shot. As it says Drams & not Drams Equivelent I take this to be the DuPont Bulk Smokless shotshell powder. The paper hulls are pale yellow in color & while no length is given on the box measuring the loaded length would appear to be correct for the 2 9/16" shell. All 25 have the same head stamps, but the top wads of a few of them show #8 shot. One shell has a deeper yellow paper than the other 24. Obviously these did not all come from one box but they do all seem to be of same vintage with the possible exception of that one shell with different color. Primers, including the odd colored one are marked WRA Co New No4. Box is the same style as the Rem box linked by Roundsworth above.